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Hello everybody, welcome to Sonic Talk, episode 913, recording today, 14th October 2026, as

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we head into a very busy period. This is the Music Technology Podcast, where we talk about

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all things to do with, well, music technology, software, synthesizers, drum machines, hardware,

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live performance, recording, manufacture, vibe coding, I suppose as well, all sorts

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of stuff, so sit back and enjoy the next hour or so as we discuss the week's news and releases.

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I want to say a very big hello and thank you to all our friends watching live, electronic

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conductress, CheapoCard company, we're on Twitch, we're on YouTube, we're on Facebook and we're on

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Instagram, although I don't think I see the comments there, and we're on, what else are we on?

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Twitch, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, oh yeah, that too, Tyneth WVQ, Wagyu of course, thank you,

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ah GetJervis, happy birthday belated, I saw it was your birthday recently, Wagyu of course, dealing

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with the back-end and the moderation, Ohmgrown, Donald Duck, Jeremy Makes Music 123, Katie

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Killabyte, lots of you there, so nice to see you all, thank you so much for joining us live, it makes

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the whole thing much more fun. I'll get on to introduce our guests in a short moment, but before

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I do, I want to let you know about what's coming up on Sonic, we've got a few things, oh we've got

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a competition with Ubershell at the moment, which is not that, is it? It's coming up, am I supposed

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to do that? Is that what it is? No, it's not it at all, is that what happens? No, oh well, never mind, coming

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up, do I do this? Maybe I press that, there we go, no, that's not working either, never mind, it's going

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to be one of those days, yeah, competition with, running with Ubershell, you can win the loop tool

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and guitar one and two, so do check that out at sonicstate.com forward slash competition, lots of

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video coming up soon, it's been a quiet summer, but now the floodgates are opening, we've been working

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on stuff with people behind the scenes, which we haven't been able to talk about, that's all starting

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to come on stream quite soon, so watch out for that, Brooklyn Synth and Pedal Expo, Matt will

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be there this weekend, we'll be sending videos back, that's October the 17th and 18th in Brooklyn, New

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York City, then we've got a Natural Audio AL1 video, which is the new limiter, which is really

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good, did a great video with Richard Reinhardt, I think his name is, on that, I've got Elphita

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Cord Cat, that Matt did a video on that, then Beijing Modular 25th to 23rd to 25th, which I will be in

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China from Tuesday, so no shows, but I'm going to be recording a show tomorrow to go in there with

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Gertz from Erica Synth, we're going to talk a little bit about the whole sort of vibe coding

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and firmware hacking craze, that's all the rage at the moment, what it maybe means for manufacturers,

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Paulie wrote a great article on that and it's just sort of a continuation of that discussion,

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phew, right, I was going to play an ad now, time to play a membership ad, I'm going to be doing

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some exclusive content for China, so if you want to see the vlogging and the, I don't know, the

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twitching food I might be eating or not eating while I'm in China, then that's a place to look

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for it, anyway, back after this, so let's introduce our guests for this week, waiting patiently while

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I do all my housekeeping, first up we've got Gaz Williams, who's there in Bristol, Gaz of course,

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right, rack records, modular performer, bass player with Charlotte Church, although I think

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that's paused for the time being, you look like you've got a lot of stuff going, there's a lot

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of synths over there behind you, have you had a good week, how are you Gaz? Yeah, amazing, thank

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you, lovely, thank you for that introduction, yeah, great, the Charlotte Church thing does

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continue, I hasten to add, which is great, some bookings coming for next year, so really pleased

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about that, as you know Nick, you came to the Bristol show, I was told, I feel, I feel ripped

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off, I was told it was the last show of the tour, I wouldn't have come, yeah, of course, it's always,

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she always says it's the last one and then it comes back, so yeah, take that with a pinch of salt,

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yeah, very addictive, that sort of show, I'd imagine to play and to be in front of,

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yeah, it's one of them things when it all comes to an end, you know, or when the tours end

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and you have to sort of adjust back to sort of normality, it's quite difficult because you do

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kind of get into this headspace of quite ridiculous, the ridiculousness, I don't know,

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it's something, yeah, well it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah, I mean touring is a very specific,

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yeah, lifestyle that, yeah, people love, you know, it's escapism in a way, but it's,

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it is escapism, yeah, but yeah, I mean, yeah, but then, you know, I do crave being back in my studio

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and being back on my, I'm on a mission, I'm on a permanent mission, you see, I always want to get

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back onto the mission, so me and my friend Ryan, we always talk about, you know, the mission,

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you know, we check in with each other most days to see how we're progressing in the mission,

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the mission being this, we don't know exactly what it is or what the end goal is, but it just

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feels like it's, you know, unlike us, we all are on Sonic here, both audience and

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participants here, you know, we're all on our missions, aren't we, you know,

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and that's what makes it all so good and exciting and everything is always changing and, you know,

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we're kind of adapting to it, but yeah, I mean, so I'm playing on Saturday for anyone who's in

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the Bristol area with Steve Davis, we're playing at a Bleak Club and Esher collab that's in kit

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form, that's in Jamaica Street in Bristol, yeah, and it's going to be some really fantastic

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visuals as well for that, so does that saloon by any chance? No, not on this one,

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actually, it's going to be the Bleak Club, it's going to be the Bleak Club Posse, yeah,

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providing visuals and yeah, so that should be really fun, there's a good, you know,

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some great artists playing and yeah, so Saturday night, that's Bristol, so it's actually,

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if you know where Elevator Sound is, it's pretty much opposite Elevator Sound, so I think,

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was that where the pre-show, the Elevator pre-party was last time? Yeah, yeah, okay,

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yeah, that was a sort of warehouse, big windows, yeah, yeah, big windows and lots of exposed kind

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of light fittings and cable dangly things, you know, that's sort of slightly, slightly,

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slightly post-apocalyptic, but yeah, but swanky, yeah, yeah, so we just, so I've been spending a

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lot of time with Steve and with another person who should remain nameless at the moment, but we've

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done a load of recordings with, who everybody knows here, but and it's, it's a really interesting

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kind of process because we're exploring what it means to kind of collaborate and make music

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together, Steve obviously coming from a very different angle, but I mean, Steve's played

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with Utopia Strong as well as with me, he must have played over, I'm probably estimating over

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200 shows now with modular synths, so he's, so although he's known as a snooker player,

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he's probably played more modular gig shows and probably 95% of modular synth users,

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they've even hired, you know, yeah, but yeah, so it's, it's always kind of challenging to me

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because it's, you know, I'm always getting my own musicality kind of, or my impulses to do

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certain things, it's, it's, you know, we're always just trying to sort of meld and find new pathways

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and I have to kind of adapt, adapt, yeah, and we're both using these new modules which are

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mind-blowing and really interesting, I know a lot of people get a little bit bored when

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we talk modular, but I think there's certain things happen within that kind of physical realm,

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you know, not just modular, but the physical realm rather than the virtual realm, and

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the, the Bella Trails is a really fascinating module, it's a four channel, and you,

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and Bella, I think their, their kind of special strength is that they're, it, it's super sensitive,

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I think it's sort of like, something like 2.6 megahertz or something, they're really fast,

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so you can put these gestures into this, I think, chaos pad, similar kind of approach.

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Oh, okay, right, interesting, but you can record them, and yeah, you can record, yeah,

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function generator that you draw effectively, yeah.

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Exactly that, and you can shape and squeeze that voltage, and you can, you know, put it through

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pitch quantizers, and all sorts of ways of manipulating it, and once you've made a gesture,

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you can go into a mode where you can actually rotate the gesture, so like an X, Y gesture,

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if you imagine rotating that, and that's going out of two different CV outputs, the X and Y,

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when you rotate that gesture, then, you know, obviously.

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All sorts of stuff happens.

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The X and Y can, yeah, it's really interesting, and then when you put that through,

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you know, if you dial in the pitch quantizer, it's quite an interesting thing, because

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you can have two different quantized layers, depending on odd and even voltages,

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so you could, like, pick certain notes for odd voltage, so, for instance, if you have...

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So you can have, you could set it up so they counterpoint effectively, yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely, yeah, if you have, like, over four volts or five volts, you know,

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if you've got over five octaves, you've got, yeah, five octaves, but each octave,

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subsequent octaves, have different note groupings, so that gesture, you move it through.

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No wonder you're so deep into it.

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No, I mean, this stuff is interesting, because it has musical, and then if you then have four

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channels all set up, and then from the top layer, control all four gestures, which,

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all four layers, which are all set to do different things with different quantized amounts,

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different gate speeds and stuff, and then from just a single gesture, just a single gesture,

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you know, usually on the...

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Flips the whole thing, yeah.

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It's, it's...

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Yeah, that sounds, that does sound it.

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Well, sounds like you're having a lot of fun out there in modular world, in your synth

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laboratory, so, yes, but thank you, and thank you very much for joining us.

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No pleasure.

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We've also got Paulie here this week, Paulie Poe, that's not, that's, that's the one I'm

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looking for.

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Paulie Poe, uh, loving the iPod Nano hair clip, that's a great, uh, that's a great addition

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to the look there.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's a, I don't, they don't, I don't think they actually make them Apple anymore, do

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they?

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They don't, did, but I did, I hear they've re, they've re, uh, they, they've relaunched

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or announced a new Apple TV, which is $300, which just sounds like a great, anyway, that's

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beside the point.

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Oh, wow.

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How are you, Paulie, are you well?

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You good?

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Everything okay?

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This, this week, Nick, you know, I'm usually very, very upbeat.

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Okay.

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This week, I hit profound burnout.

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Ah, okay.

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I know we're going to talk about it, like, um, we're going to talk about it tomorrow

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with Gertz about firmware hacking and, you know, stuff like that, vibe coding, soft

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sync and stuff like that.

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But I had this moment where I was like, God, this, this world really has changed, hasn't

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it, um, in terms of idea to, to product and the interesting, it's getting used to the

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fact that most of the people I've spoke to, um, regarding this stuff, regarding AI are

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very keen to protect their own discipline, you know, like songwriting or something, but

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then are very happy to use AI for everything else.

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So yeah, including plugins and things like that.

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So it's, and, and I was, you know, interviewing people going, oh, how did you make this?

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What's the story?

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You know, I like to tell stories in my articles and stuff and, and all the answers were like,

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well, I put it into Claude and I had an idea and it was done and it was like, oh, I'm going

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to have to, you know, really dress this article up and add some drama or something.

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But yeah, I, I just really hit burnout with it.

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I was like, you know, what, what's next?

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What do I cover?

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Can I cover everything that's coming through?

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Um, I was talking that to Tom from, you know, Synth Anatomy.

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Yeah.

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He wrote, he wrote an interesting article about how, uh, you know, how it's, it, it,

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how much there's so much vibe coded stuff and how much stuff that he, you know, he has

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said on how he's going to deal with it.

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It was an interesting viewpoint.

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Very long article, actually.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And, you know, I'm looking forward, I'm looking forward to that tomorrow.

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I am okay now.

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I've kind of had to recenter my, my passions a little bit more solitary though.

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Right.

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Because every, every space you go into about Synth now, it's just constant, a constant

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barrage and I think the problem is, is a lot of people are still stuck in the, it's an

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endless candy store, wonderful, you know, thing of, uh, we have all these toys now,

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we can do anything.

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And my brains go in because I've got autism and ADHD and I've been riding the dopamine

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dragon since birth.

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I'm like, well, that, that honeymoon phase isn't going to last forever.

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And then where are we going to end up?

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No, that's a, that's an interesting point.

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I mean, I suppose as a counter, I mean, one thing, you know, as, as the level of, um,

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then there will be people who can do truly amazing things that we almost can't comprehend

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with the help of, you know, perhaps and things that are so many more things may become even

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more amazing and fantastical and, and maybe the, the, the level of mediocrity will be,

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will be considered sort of much further up the scale that we have, which maybe isn't

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a good thing, but you just, so, you know, but anyway, but that may mean the pinnacles

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could be even higher.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I thought it was important to discuss just in case anyone was feeling the same, basically.

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Fair enough.

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Well, I, I would like to add, I've never hired a systems admin, uh, and I always have to

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do it myself.

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So I find AI is really helpful for me to administer the service.

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I would just like to point out, I've, I, now our footage, uh, you know, I film a video

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on the, I film a video on the phone.

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First shot is a business card or a name badge or something.

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Now that information gets extracted from the image.

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So it all follows the footage through the system, which makes my life so much and all

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the editors lives so much more easy.

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Yes.

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So these are things that I can do that I, I'd never have paid anyone or had anybody

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else do anyway.

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So I don't feel too bad about it.

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I'm not coding clients anyway, but, but yeah.

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I think the, the less creative something it does, you know, like, like a mundane task,

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the less issue I have with it, basically.

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I think that's a fair, that's, and that's probably a good point to leave it.

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Keep, just do more mundane stuff so we could just concentrate on the esoteric things, but

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then anyway.

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So, um, we have topics.

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I mean, it's a very software heavy, uh, week after all that talk about coding, and I'm

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not suggesting that these are vibe coded, uh, plugins by any stretch.

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In fact, I'm fairly sure most of them aren't, uh, um, but, uh, I, I wanted to just, we'll

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start with, I was hoping to get scanner on because, uh, when they got in touch with me

209
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and said about this plugin, they said, Oh, I said, would you like to come on the show?

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Unfortunately they're gigging.

211
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So it's almost impossible to get them on, but we'll start with this because I think

212
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it's a, uh, a good one to go with.

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So let's go.

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This is a scanner library from scanner.

215
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And it's a really, so my superhero origin story here is that I have this rather vast

216
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archive of recordings and endemic was helpful for time to explore what these tapes will

217
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actually offer.

218
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And I hadn't listened to them in 20, 30 years.

219
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And in conversation with the guys at Sonic Couture, we were interested.

220
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I was especially interested in making an instrument that was very minimal in essence.

221
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In fact, it began in a very minimal way.

222
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It offered very little.

223
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And I mean that in a very positive way.

224
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I, I won't, I won't play old thing.

225
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Robin's got a great method of delivery.

226
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It's perhaps not snappy enough for, for, for the, the, the fast edit of my, uh, how I like

227
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to run a show, but hopefully we'll get Robin on at some point and he can, and he can, uh,

228
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he can, he can kind of let us know a bit more.

229
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This I thought was really interesting for several reasons.

230
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Uh, it's a three and a half gigabytes.

231
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It's a unique library of 400 recordings.

232
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And some of these things are, it's sort of like a, it's like the essence of,

233
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of creativity throughout his journey through music.

234
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,280
And as we know, scanner made a lot of waves by sampling sort of obscure shortwave radio

235
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and just kind of telemetry and all kinds of stuff and working it into his music.

236
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And it was very successful and still remains successful.

237
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Does a lot of live performances.

238
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And this is just a sort of distillation of that, uh, 400 unique recordings, 200 presets.

239
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Uh, I think it's on offer at the moment for 139.

240
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:05,360
And I just thought it was, it's a great way to sort of, if you've still got a lot of that

241
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,200
stuff, a way to bring that out.

242
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,080
I mean, not all of us.

243
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,640
I mean, I know my back catalog is just really bad songs, so it wouldn't quite work in the

244
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,200
same way as text as I may have recorded, but I just thought it was fascinating.

245
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,680
And I'm, I love Robin and scanner.

246
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,440
He's a, he's a great, a very, always really interested to always post some really good

247
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,920
stuff on social, lots of kind of observations about great pieces of art and stuff.

248
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And I'm really glad this exists.

249
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,360
And I just like the idea of it as well, the way it's came to be.

250
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,360
I don't know if you had a chance to listen to some of the demos.

251
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They are very, very atmospheric, aren't they?

252
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And quite lovely.

253
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,000
Yeah, definitely.

254
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,400
And it kind of reminds me of how, uh, how I would first experiment when I got my first

255
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:55,680
four track, which was a Fostex XD5, I think four track cassette recorder, uh, in about

256
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,720
1998, something like that.

257
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:06,640
And yeah, of course we do record our terrible teenage love songs on them, but just recording,

258
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I don't know, four lanes of random stuff or four, you know, lanes of radios being retuned

259
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or something.

260
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,280
My nan's old radio that couldn't quite tune in anything.

261
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And then doing these little collages just for fun, never for really with an end goal

262
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in mind, just to kind of exploratory, you know, process a mindful meditative process.

263
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And I think that's what this plugin can do.

264
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It's just this treasure trove of scanners, 3.5 gigabytes of this stuff, um, you know,

265
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from the past.

266
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And what I'm interested, you know, cause I want to get him on Retrocast 2 to talk about

267
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some of his old gear.

268
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What I'm interested in finding out is when did the, the kind of, uh, cause having the

269
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custodian of the samples, being the custodian of the samples and thinking these are mine,

270
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I'll use them one day.

271
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When did, when did that, you know, these are mine just for me.

272
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This is my secret treasure trove, my secret weapon.

273
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:27,040
When did that morph into, oh, I'll release them for everyone to try and use, you know?

274
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It can't be, it can't be all of them.

275
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It can't be all of them, I wouldn't imagine.

276
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But yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, but nonetheless, I don't know.

277
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It's, it's an interesting thought, isn't it?

278
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:43,680
I mean, Gaz, you must be generating this kind of material continuously or messing about

279
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,040
with, uh, with, with modular.

280
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:45,680
Sorry, you're messing.

281
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:46,960
I sound a bit dismissive.

282
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,840
I, you were experimenting with modular all the time.

283
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:56,560
I mean, have you got a kind of route to, to, to go back and maybe have something to create

284
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:57,840
something like this for yourself?

285
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,400
Or I mean, do you, do you utilize it?

286
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,040
I mean, how do you.

287
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,680
I am building something similar and it's interesting.

288
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,440
Robin did get in touch with me about this and it's something that I have got installed

289
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,120
and starting to explore.

290
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,200
Well, I haven't explored it yet.

291
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:18,160
So I was kind of, um, but there's some, you see, Robin makes really good music.

292
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:25,840
I think, um, I was fortunate enough to perform with Robin in, in Synthiste earlier this year.

293
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:37,840
And, um, and I was marveling at how, how he could just take these kind of textural elements,

294
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:44,880
but just interweave it with a kind of very knowing, but kind of almost like, um, in some

295
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:52,240
ways it's sort of gentle or in other ways, not gentle, but just, um, just in sort of

296
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,440
subtly infuse like a musicality through everything.

297
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,520
And when we were performing together, cause it was part of the patch off.

298
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,960
So I was drawn at random to perform with Robin, which I was super chuffed about.

299
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,720
Um, but, uh, it was amazing.

300
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,520
The room felt silent when we were performing.

301
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,800
And I think in part, I mean, I attribute.

302
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,240
They weren't dark, I mean.

303
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,040
No, it wasn't, no.

304
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,960
Um, and I'd attribute that really to Robin's kind of craft and, and, you know, Robin performing

305
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,560
as scanner did, did a fantastic show that evening as well.

306
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:36,080
Um, so I was just really, uh, I felt so, I felt so privileged to be able to share the

307
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:42,720
stage, but also to kind of experience how, um, the way he was working was he had like,

308
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:53,920
um, I'm guessing content much like what he's got of this, um, uh, this, this new instrument,

309
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,040
um, playing it off.

310
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,800
I think they're using a black box.

311
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,120
Ah, that makes sense.

312
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:03,600
Yeah.

313
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,000
I think he used it, he used the Seattle Obama stuff as well.

314
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,120
Cause I remember we did a thing with him in lockdown where we did a little live performance

315
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,680
sort of thing from his, uh, his loft.

316
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,840
I'd have to go back and look at it, but.

317
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:16,080
Yeah.

318
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,520
Well, I mean, at this particular set, I think if I remember rightly, it was like two black

319
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:25,520
boxes feeding into morphogene, um, make noise morphogene, um, which is a great way of kind

320
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,080
of combining granulizing content.

321
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,600
But I think what I'm trying to say is that although there's a, you know, this thing about

322
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:40,960
all the texture and ambience, it was just his musicality was the thing that really struck

323
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,120
me.

324
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,680
And that, well, I guess that will also be refiltered in the choice of sounds that this

325
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:46,320
goes into.

326
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,720
I should add, it's not a plugin.

327
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,800
It's a, well, it is a plugin, but it's a contact plugin.

328
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,760
So it runs in contact.

329
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,040
Oh yeah, it runs in contact.

330
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,680
And it's sort of more or less just like a tape player in some ways.

331
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:03,440
And I guess there's so many interesting ways to process audio that having this curated

332
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:10,560
collection of interesting sounds, uh, you know, um, especially knowing how tasteful

333
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:16,640
and intelligent Robin's approach is, uh, I think, you know, I think is going to be,

334
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,680
you know, an absolute bounty of joy.

335
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:25,840
Uh, again, like I was mentioning, just having, you know, things like, um, you know, big news

336
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:32,160
this week, I think is that, um, Mutable Instruments' final masterpiece Beats has been open

337
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,200
sourced this week.

338
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:34,320
Right.

339
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,760
So that, you know, who knows what that, you know, who knows what's going to,

340
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,240
who knows what vibe coding projects that will trigger.

341
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:51,840
But at the same time, things like that, you know, they need to be fed with interesting

342
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,160
things.

343
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:57,200
And I think that's the sort of thing I'm kind of thinking about really that, you know,

344
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:05,040
just all these wonderful ways of manipulating audios, just having such great and oodles

345
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,040
of it, you know, things to.

346
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,320
And he goes on to talk, he goes on to talk about how much of it's because it's a lot

347
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,840
of it's on tape and a lot of it's very imperfect and there's all this imperfection in it, which

348
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,200
I think is something the human brain craves, but maybe doesn't know it needs.

349
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,800
It just, I mean, unless you're, you know, unless you understand what you're listening

350
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,520
for, perhaps the lay person might just think this isn't satisfying me for whatever reason,

351
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,080
in the same way that sometimes when you hear a synthesizer, if it's too precise and too,

352
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,720
and if it's DSP and it's not been had a proper sort of instability built into it,

353
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,360
you know, DX7, for instance, people say can't sound cold and requires a very different approach

354
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:46,320
to making sound, you know, I mean, and it's rawness, you know, it badly programmed, should

355
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:46,640
I say.

356
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,360
So, I mean, so that's what I mean, and I suppose adding, you know, the curating that part of

357
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:52,560
it's kind of interesting.

358
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,440
Hold that thought.

359
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,520
I think I will just play a message from our sponsor.

360
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,960
We'll be back after this.

361
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:32,480
And we're back in the room.

362
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:34,000
Yeah, fascinating.

363
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,840
I mean, it just, but this whole topic just got me thinking about, you know, back catalogue

364
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,720
and that it raises so many, so many questions, like what formats on, can you still find a

365
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:43,200
mini disc?

366
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:44,640
Can you still find a tape player?

367
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,000
I've got loads of DATs.

368
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,760
I haven't got a DAT player that works anymore, which, and it's really annoying me and I don't

369
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,960
want to buy one, but I sort of feel I should because I've got only 17, there's only 17

370
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,520
working DAT machines in the whole world now, apparently.

371
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,880
And they're all, they're all run by tape transfer hire companies, right?

372
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:01,780
Yeah.

373
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:04,640
That's not true, Gaz, is it?

374
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:06,160
No, of course it's not.

375
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:06,960
Okay.

376
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,640
If you're silly, of course it's not.

377
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,720
I'm going to put 17 working DAT machines.

378
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,200
That's a title.

379
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,080
17 working DAT machines, working DAT machines.

380
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,200
And only some of them.

381
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,720
I guess you could say DAT's life.

382
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,320
Oh, that is almost punishable by execution.

383
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,200
No, sorry, that was a bit harsh.

384
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,760
Yeah, sorry, I don't know why I said that, never mind.

385
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,440
Just ignore that, we'll edit that one.

386
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,720
No, we can't edit that, it's a lie.

387
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,440
Should we move on?

388
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,560
I feel like I should before I get into any more trouble.

389
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,680
Does anybody, uh, does anybody use Falcon?

390
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,240
Falcon seems to be, it's one of those ones that seems to be released.

391
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,680
This is such a monster thing.

392
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,560
I think we should probably cover it because it's such a huge, such a huge release.

393
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,760
Let me just pop that in there.

394
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,240
We'll do that, uh, if I can find it.

395
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,040
Yeah, here we go.

396
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,960
UVI Falcon 2027.

397
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,020
I mean.

398
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:05,360
Howdy doody.

399
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,440
My name is Cameron, better known as Venus Theory.

400
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,600
And oh, what a glorious day it is.

401
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,320
Because today I get to talk about the new Falcon update with Falcon 2027.

402
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,640
This is a free update for all Falcon owners.

403
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,000
And it brings four new oscillators, 10 new effects, a new modulator,

404
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,640
a bunch of workflow and UI improvements, and over 100 new factory presets.

405
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,600
Which means there's a whole lot of ground to cover in this video.

406
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,920
If you're not already familiar with it, Falcon is UVI's flagship hybrid instrument,

407
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,880
covering a nearly limitless array of possibilities with its semi-modular architecture,

408
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,160
wide variety of oscillators, event processors, and scripts,

409
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,320
studio quality effects, and deep sound design capabilities, letting you.

410
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:45,600
Right.

411
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,080
I mean, that's, that's part of the problem.

412
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,040
I mean, not part of the problem.

413
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,160
The problem is kind of just, how do you summarize Falcon?

414
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,200
It is everything.

415
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,480
I mean, we had this, we had this issue ourselves, didn't we?

416
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:56,980
Once.

417
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,960
Yeah, as Venus said there, 2027, available at an intro price of £149.

418
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:11,840
It is, I mean, it's probably the most comprehensive synth and sample playback engine at all.

419
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,880
And I know Rich Hilton swears by it and says he's really impressed with it.

420
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,480
And lots of people up in Venus Theory, who we know is a very creative output,

421
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,160
nice to see him on form and looking happy.

422
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,800
I know he had a bit of a rough period, so good to see that.

423
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,880
But this is just bonkers, isn't it?

424
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,160
It's absolutely bonkers.

425
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,360
And in a way, it's, while great, it's, there's so much,

426
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,760
I think you sort of really need to be the sort of person that can handle this number of options,

427
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,520
because there's just so much to deal with.

428
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,760
So many things, right?

429
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,920
Yeah, we, yeah, like I was just interjecting there,

430
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,680
and we did have that with Omnisphere in a way,

431
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,080
where you've got something that's just so gigantic

432
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,880
and just continues to get more and more gigantic.

433
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,560
It's, it's, it's baffling.

434
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:56,800
But I mean, this, I mean, this does look like a superb update.

435
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,160
I mean, Venus Theory does a very entertaining,

436
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,600
very engrossing walkthrough of all the features there.

437
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,000
One that really stuck with me, I thought, was FM algorithm morphing.

438
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,480
And I think that's unique.

439
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:10,960
Oh, that's it.

440
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,240
Well, you've got that in the, that's in the Leviathan, I would like to point out.

441
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,520
That's also in hardware.

442
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:18,720
That's available.

443
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,120
Okay.

444
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,640
But yes, good feature.

445
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,240
Yeah, yeah.

446
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720
And just an enormous feature list.

447
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,280
I was surprised that some of the things weren't there before,

448
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,040
given how expansive it was.

449
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:36,160
But I mean, it's weird though, because as much as this is impressive,

450
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,360
I mean, does it interest me?

451
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,560
No, it doesn't.

452
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,560
But I mean, that's not to say that it's not brilliant,

453
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,440
because it clearly is.

454
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,160
And it doesn't interest me by that massiveness of it.

455
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,240
I've kind of gone back to much more sort of basic and simple things.

456
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,080
I guess in modular, I'm dealing with things in a much more kind of

457
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,960
just sort of simplified sort of way.

458
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,120
And I find that more appealing for me.

459
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,920
However, if I was working more in the production line of things.

460
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Recall, having recall and all that sort of stuff.

461
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,960
And recall and all that kind of stuff, then this is immense.

462
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,680
And I mean, I think to get the best out of this,

463
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:16,800
or get the most out of it,

464
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,760
you'd have to pretty much uninstall everything else.

465
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,480
Just focus on it.

466
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,680
Well, it can do everything.

467
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,560
I mean, if you want to do everything in one scene,

468
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,920
the Falcon's probably a pretty solid place to start.

469
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,400
Because years back, Alchemy was in a similar role, wasn't it?

470
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Until it got swallowed up by Apple.

471
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,880
But that was heading into this do-it-all thing.

472
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:49,520
But I think Falcon has, I mean, Falcon and Omnisphere,

473
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,240
I think you've got everything you could ever need, really.

474
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,120
But however, again, you know,

475
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,400
more is more isn't always the way to...

476
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:03,840
Not for everybody.

477
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,680
Yes, not for everybody.

478
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,640
However, there's loads of really cool...

479
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,240
I really enjoyed...

480
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,840
And I recommend people watching this walkthrough of features,

481
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:14,400
because just...

482
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,840
If it was only those features, it would be amazing.

483
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:21,120
Do you know what I mean?

484
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,160
On top of everything else.

485
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,280
It's on top of everything else.

486
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,320
So, boom.

487
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,520
I mean, incredible, really.

488
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:26,880
But yeah.

489
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,920
Yes, not my thing.

490
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,440
No, fair enough, fair enough.

491
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,480
Paulie, I mean, again, you know, it's these sort of...

492
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,920
It's such a behemoth, isn't it?

493
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,400
It's such a massive amount of stuff that you could do with it.

494
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,280
I'm pretty sure if it doesn't do it as well,

495
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,520
because you can script and you can do all sorts of things,

496
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,560
you can probably make it do what you want it to do.

497
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:47,940
If not.

498
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,760
Yeah, definitely.

499
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,080
By the way, I've promised everyone I'm going to stop being in misery guts now

500
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,600
for the rest of the podcast.

501
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,080
Okay, well, I hadn't noticed, to be honest.

502
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,000
Let's be cool and positive.

503
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:10,080
And the features that stood out to me are,

504
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:16,080
one, yes, it looks like one of these monolith synthesizers, doesn't it?

505
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,400
Kind of like Omnisphere, where you go to it for nearly everything.

506
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,000
And I have one of these already.

507
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,840
I've found that in the sort of last...

508
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:33,680
You know, when I'm doing demos of a Eurorack module or something,

509
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:36,800
and I need a pad to go underneath it,

510
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,760
or I need a bass sound, or I need something.

511
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,320
Nine out of 10 times an hour, I'm using Pigments from Arturia,

512
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,600
which has samples as well.

513
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,720
And I think that's another one, which is a massive, huge wavetable,

514
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:54,000
samples, VA engine, FM, you know?

515
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,600
A kind of endless playground.

516
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,440
So I think, yes, as Gaz was saying, he made a great point.

517
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,240
You might need to uninstall everything else to really learn

518
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,960
such an instrument like this.

519
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,560
Because that's how it's felt with me and Pigments.

520
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,520
You know, I've kind of ignored everything else for the most part,

521
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,280
and just concentrated on that,

522
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,480
because it does the audio rate modulation I want, blah, blah, blah.

523
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,560
But back to this synth, and why I think it's really cool

524
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,880
is that there's a new wave shaper on board,

525
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,800
which is always brilliant to, you know,

526
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,280
rough up basic waveforms and do some really cinematic things.

527
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,440
One of my favorite sort of 90s synths with a wave shaper

528
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:50,560
and is the Korg 01W, which sounds incredibly cinematic and foreboding.

529
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,120
And I always like that kind of sound.

530
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:59,120
But I think the FM on Falcon looks really, really good now.

531
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,920
It looks like an actual accessible FM.

532
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,560
You have your input, whatever it is, the oscillator,

533
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,800
and then you have an A and you have a B.

534
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,960
And essentially, you can either run it through A,

535
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,720
you know, which is another operator.

536
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,280
You can run it through B, which could be at a different pitch.

537
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:25,120
And then maybe morph crossfade between them and get sounds that way.

538
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:31,280
And I think for that, that will cover a big, big range of FM sounds, you know,

539
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,520
for people who don't want the complexity of six operators.

540
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,680
So I think, you know, for people who are like,

541
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,880
well, I need some FM on top of the samples.

542
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,320
This is absolutely brilliant.

543
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,240
And the final thing I noticed was the data envelope,

544
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,880
which is like a kind of envelope follower,

545
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,760
but you can record in a sample of, say, a drum beat or something,

546
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,960
and it'll pick out the peaks and then you can keep it

547
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,920
and use that as your, you know, LFO or envelope.

548
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,480
Oh, that's an interesting idea.

549
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,560
Yes, which I think, I mean, Gaz, you went through them, didn't you?

550
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,720
It's like a fingerprint.

551
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:16,320
It does sound fun, doesn't it?

552
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,800
Recording an impulse or an envelope following thing

553
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,160
and then just whacking that on a pad or something, you know?

554
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,280
So that's the things that I like.

555
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,120
The drum fill at the beginning of EastEnders as an LFO.

556
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,520
Surely it's the, isn't it the end?

557
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,720
It's always at the dramatic point.

558
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:37,760
Sorry, the end, the end.

559
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,240
I think the drum fill at the beginning is really insignificant

560
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:41,200
and you hardly notice it.

561
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,600
Sorry, it shows how much I watch it.

562
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,880
Yeah, me neither, but I do remember enough

563
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,000
because I used to watch it.

564
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,480
I don't anymore, but that was a long, long time ago.

565
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,440
I'm glad not to.

566
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,640
Yeah, it looks fascinating.

567
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,560
I mean, it's really, and to be sure, if you are already owner,

568
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:57,440
it's a free update.

569
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,600
And as Technomatic said in the chat room,

570
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,720
they've had free updates for 10 years.

571
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:04,720
I mean, once you buy it, it's 10 years.

572
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,400
That is, you see.

573
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,400
I mean, so this is free for,

574
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,080
so this incredible update is free for existing owners?

575
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:13,200
Yes.

576
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:15,680
That's the way to go, isn't it?

577
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:16,000
Amazing.

578
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,200
With all that whole envelope.

579
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,880
Yeah, respect, respect.

580
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,840
Yeah, fair play, fair play to you folks.

581
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,400
Nicely done.

582
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,920
Um, okay, uh, what else do we, uh, what else do we do?

583
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,040
Did you get my thing about, um, the Sledgehammer breakdown?

584
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,080
Just out of interest.

585
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:32,240
Yes.

586
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,440
Mmm, I've seen some of his other breakdowns.

587
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,960
Maybe, yeah, it was pretty good.

588
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:37,760
Maybe we'll save that.

589
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:38,320
Let's have a look.

590
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,520
Um, let's have a look at, uh, let's do this one quickly

591
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,440
because I think this was just kind of an interesting,

592
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:44,320
it's kind of fun.

593
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,040
I don't know how, how, how much time we'll need to spend on it,

594
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,720
so we can use it as an amuse-bouche.

595
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:50,960
Hey there, guys, welcome back.

596
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,040
This is the RetroSynth ABDC.

597
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,440
I'm going to do a quick walkthrough of Abduction by Laszlo Dobrovolski.

598
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,880
So this is actually an MPE synth, believe it or not,

599
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,680
and all the controls here are the UI elements.

600
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,480
So there's no UI, it's like you, you open the window, you, you, you...

601
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,280
It is iOS.

602
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:11,840
Mess around.

603
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:12,720
Yeah, so it's touch.

604
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:14,880
Yes, it's iOS and it's AUV3.

605
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,800
So AUV3, I think, does that not work inside Logic?

606
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:20,560
AUV3?

607
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:21,200
I think it does.

608
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,080
And GarageBand?

609
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:23,760
And GarageBand, probably.

610
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:24,080
Maybe.

611
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,440
Yeah, uh, it's, the picture is the synth,

612
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,440
so, uh, Shepard Tones, band-limited two oscillators, noise mod,

613
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,040
uh, it's $4.99.

614
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,240
That's by Laszlo Dobrovolski.

615
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,600
I'm so sorry, I did, I forgot to make a note of who made the video,

616
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,360
um, because they did a run-through of it,

617
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,640
and I, I usually try and credit people, but, uh, so I didn't.

618
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,880
I, I don't get, um, Paulie, you mentioned this one,

619
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,240
because it just looked like a fun thing.

620
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:49,680
I mean, it's, it's a, it's a unique way of doing a user interface

621
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:54,080
and sort of throws out all of, all of any, any perceived wisdom

622
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,920
you might have on how to control an instrument.

623
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,960
So I suppose that's the...

624
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,960
Well, I mean, and you'd, you'd, you'd, you'd, you'd, you'd,

625
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,160
um, I mean, and you'd get very unusual muscle memory for it, wouldn't you?

626
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,080
Like, you know, grab the, grab the alien's head

627
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,160
to change the filter cutoff, I think, is one of them.

628
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,640
And then the other alien's head is the resonance.

629
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,880
I think that's, if, if I'm, um, remembering it correctly.

630
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,360
I think, uh, I think it was just a bit of fun.

631
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,360
Halloween's just around the corner.

632
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,880
It's my favorite time of year.

633
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,200
I wonder if this, this, I mean, has the sense of possibly being vibe coded,

634
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,080
although I wouldn't want to, uh, to, to, um, uh, to, to denigrate

635
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:37,680
the, the developer if that's not the case.

636
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,880
But I mean, I suppose this is the sort of thing one could do if, you know.

637
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:47,120
Is, is, is it a case of where, you know, I'm contradicting myself here already.

638
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:55,200
Is it a case of where, uh, if, if this is vibe coded, the, the UI and how,

639
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:02,960
you know, crazy it is kind of gives it a free pass in a kind of, you know, weird.

640
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,440
It's not true.

641
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:04,720
It's not.

642
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:08,000
People love to watch B-movies and stuff, don't they?

643
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,080
It feels like a B-movie synth.

644
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:11,120
It is.

645
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,120
It's not just a synth interface, is it?

646
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:13,760
As that's the way.

647
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,240
No.

648
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,480
For those, by the way, Synth Anatomy is in the chat room.

649
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,360
He wrote a great article about, uh, about dealing with all of these vibe coded releases,

650
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,800
which you should definitely check out.

651
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,080
But, uh, yeah, it's kind of fun.

652
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,200
I guess I'm guessing this probably doesn't appeal to you, but you are a gamer.

653
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,600
So there is a certain, I mean, you know, there's an angle there.

654
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:30,800
Yeah.

655
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,640
When he, I mean, it does make me think back to the glory days of Sonic Touch.

656
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,240
And when, when people were trying out all sorts of interesting ideas,

657
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:43,440
different kinds of interfaces, uh, a really early hit in the iOS world was a B-bot,

658
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:43,760
wasn't it?

659
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:44,960
The little robot that people.

660
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:45,280
Yes.

661
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:45,760
That was.

662
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,560
Loved it because.

663
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:46,960
Oh, yeah.

664
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:47,520
Wasn't that?

665
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,080
Didn't, didn't, um, uh, gosh, what's his name?

666
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,840
Uh, the, the wizard, the synth wizard.

667
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,400
What's his name?

668
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,280
Jordan Rudess.

669
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,720
He had something to do with that.

670
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:55,440
Oh, I'm not sure.

671
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,600
I mean, Jordan was certainly exploring and collaborating with different, um, makers in,

672
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,200
in exploring new forms of touch and interface.

673
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,880
And then this, you know, this is just, you know, it is, it is kind of fun.

674
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:16,640
I mean, um, if it enables people to explore synthesis without sort of getting bogged down

675
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,960
with the actual terminology, jargon and all that kind of stuff.

676
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:22,960
That is a very valid point.

677
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,480
I think, you know, you open the door, you open the door.

678
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,560
That's really interesting.

679
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:34,560
Cause I, I was watching back an old interview I did or not old, but last NAM with, uh, um,

680
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,640
the audio shake, uh, Jessica, uh, Jessica, I've forgotten her surname.

681
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,680
Uh, and she was saying that, you know, that that's all STEM separation stuff and it uses

682
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:44,960
machine learning or whatnot.

683
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:50,080
But she was saying is what happens if making something like this, if you're trying to get

684
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,880
your kid interested in music, they've not responded to, to the normal ways and you put

685
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,600
something this in front of them, they suddenly get tuned in and then they want to play with

686
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,440
the synth and then they want to play with the plugin.

687
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,680
These are the sort of things, the pathways that maybe you can open up for people to get

688
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:04,880
in, I suppose.

689
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:05,680
I like that.

690
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:06,560
That's a valid thing.

691
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:07,920
That's feels like a positive note.

692
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,520
Anyway, you can check it out.

693
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:10,800
It's, uh, it's on the app store.

694
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,440
It's called retro sci-fi synth, A, B, D, C, T, N.

695
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:16,320
There we go.

696
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,040
Abduction.

697
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:18,960
Oh, is that what it is?

698
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,640
Not enough vowels for me.

699
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:23,360
No vowels.

700
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,560
I couldn't make the, uh, just, just a random, there, there is, and I watch a, uh, a quiz

701
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,280
show on Monday nights on the UK called Only Connect.

702
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,160
And they have a round at the end where they have, um, clues.

703
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,800
So it might be music, music and politicians.

704
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,560
So I don't know, you might get Howard.

705
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,400
I can't think of anybody.

706
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,000
Um, but you know, there might, there might be something, a congenation of two words,

707
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,200
but they take all the vowels out and you've got to figure out what the word is.

708
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,880
So I suppose I should know a little bit about that, even though I'm terrible at that.

709
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,400
Sorry, that was a massive aside.

710
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,640
That's got absolutely nothing to do with anything, but well worth watching if you're

711
00:43:58,640 --> 00:43:59,200
a quiz fan.

712
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,200
There's something in the air today.

713
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,480
There is something in the air.

714
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,920
I think I'm going a bit stir-crazy.

715
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,760
I did mention that because I'm going to China on Tuesday, my first time.

716
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,680
So I'm kind of like, I'm a little bit giddy because I just don't know what on earth to

717
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:12,000
expect.

718
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,600
I kind of, you know, part of me is thinking it could be my last ever trip just because

719
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,400
I've been to a strange world, you know, and anything could happen.

720
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,720
I might eat, I might eat something I shouldn't.

721
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:21,520
I don't know.

722
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,920
I'm sure I won't, but I'm looking forward to it immensely.

723
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,880
Nick, can I just jump in about the stem separation?

724
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,880
Because I've recently just bought Spectralayers 13 Pro 13.

725
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,920
Is that the Steinberg?

726
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,360
Steinberg, yeah.

727
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:42,640
And the reason I did that was because of the, um, how much more deeper you can go into stem

728
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:43,280
separation.

729
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,880
I talked about this last time I was on the show about going back to old, like, live recordings

730
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,640
that I'd made, oh, you know, of my bands.

731
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:51,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

732
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,360
Restoration jobs, yeah.

733
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:53,680
Yeah.

734
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,800
And then what Spectralayers lets you do is just go into it in so much more kind of forensic

735
00:44:58,800 --> 00:44:59,440
detail.

736
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:07,200
For instance, you know, you can stem separate drums into kicks, snare, hi-hat, cymbals,

737
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:15,840
toms, uh, and, uh, so you can split, you know, you can get the drums out of, oh, the music

738
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,880
separation goes more layers than other ones that I've used.

739
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,280
Oh, yeah, yeah, because normally you get six layers, don't you?

740
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:21,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

741
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,240
Yeah, you've got a few that I haven't seen before.

742
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:29,440
So you'd split your layers, and then when you've split your layers and you've got the

743
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,560
drums, you can then split the drums into the components.

744
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,720
Oh, right, like kicks, snare, hi-hat.

745
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:35,760
Yeah, kicks, snare, hi-hat.

746
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,480
Wow.

747
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:43,360
And then it goes even further, you know, you can do, uh, you can do, like, sound effect,

748
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:50,240
um, you can split sound effects up into three parts, into tonal, noise, and I can't remember

749
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,480
what the other one is, but whatever else there is.

750
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,360
Wow, okay.

751
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,240
So for me, I'm like, you know, a lot of the, like, quasimodal jams that I've got, you know,

752
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:04,320
uh, I've got them recorded in a stereo drum mix and a stereo modular mix, but the modular

753
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,440
mix, you know, if you try and use conventional stem splitting for that, it can, it's, a lot

754
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:15,360
of the stuff is, it doesn't really know what it is because it's not the algorithm, but

755
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,960
if you do it and you split elements like noise, uh, you know, this, you use the sound effect

756
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,560
thing to split apart the stuff, then you kind of break it apart into these mixable components.

757
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:27,680
Oh, interesting.

758
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:32,880
Yeah, well worth a look at Spectralayers Pro 13.

759
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:33,840
Nice, nice tip.

760
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,080
Yeah, this is really interesting.

761
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:41,040
Some interesting comparisons with it and earlier versions of Spectralayers as well, where you

762
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:47,920
get to hear just how clean these, you know, the, the drum, when they do the drum separation

763
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,120
on the stereo drums, because the stereo drums are recorded extremely well anyway.

764
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,920
So you're giving it good source material when you listen to the stems.

765
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,160
It's quite interesting because you can listen to your mix and then listen to the stems.

766
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:11,760
Virtually, you know, identical to listen to if you sort of toggle between the split stems

767
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,400
all playing at the same time and the original.

768
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,600
So you kind of go, okay, it's kind of cool because, uh, but then if you do listen to

769
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,600
things and you kind of say in the toms and you're hearing some snare or something, you

770
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:29,440
can take elements and get and recombine them with, and tell them to go to other tracks

771
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,200
so you can clean it up extremely well.

772
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:33,520
Yeah.

773
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,680
Never seen anything quite like it.

774
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:36,480
Fascinating.

775
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:36,880
That sounds really interesting.

776
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,600
It's blowing my mind.

777
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,200
Yeah, very powerful.

778
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:44,720
Um, I should probably take a quick break here and, uh, be back after this, uh, message.

779
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,120
Yeah, that's an interesting, I actually, I should have put that in for the show release

780
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:49,360
actually.

781
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:50,640
That looks like an interesting effect.

782
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,120
It's like a combination of, uh, transit and something new as well.

783
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,480
They're using UI elements for that.

784
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:57,760
I don't know if you had a chance to check that.

785
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,000
I guess, I mean, I guess it's in software world, but, uh, that's the Baby Audio Hyper

786
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,360
Warp, which, uh, which looked kind of interesting.

787
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:06,960
Um, okay.

788
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:12,160
Uh, gosh, should we do, should we do the, the, the, we haven't got that much longer.

789
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:13,200
Should we do the Peter Gable thing?

790
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:14,000
I can't play the video.

791
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,600
Obviously I'll get completely busted.

792
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:18,160
Should we do that one?

793
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,320
Does, does anybody feel happy with that?

794
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:20,560
Yeah.

795
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,120
I haven't managed to watch it yet, but, uh.

796
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:24,080
That's all right.

797
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:24,960
We can talk about it.

798
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,520
So yeah, this is, so this is a Sledgehammer breakdown.

799
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,520
This is a MIDI, uh, MIDI error.

800
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,360
Found it on, uh, and put it on the site.

801
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:36,560
Obviously our site can't, you know, won't show YouTube videos to this browser for some

802
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:42,400
reason, but it's a breakdown of Sledgehammer, uh, 1986 song, arguably Peter Gable's greatest

803
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,960
hit and sort of relaunched his career, funded the building of real world.

804
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,160
And, you know, the whole album.

805
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,280
So it was collaboration with, uh, Daniel Anwar and all that recorded at, uh, Ashcombe house.

806
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,840
And it's a great video by creating music and sound.

807
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:02,560
And, uh, they just basically take the, the, the, the, uh, the multi-track apart, Manny

808
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,720
Cacci on drums, uh, Tony Levin on bass, and just those two elements alone.

809
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:08,320
You're just like, Oh, such a drip.

810
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,200
I mean that bass sound it's like on the Shakuachi or it's so iconic.

811
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,800
The video is really iconic as well.

812
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:20,720
And almost kind of kick-started a whole new wave of stop motion videos that were done.

813
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:23,680
In fact, uh, I think I did a video.

814
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:30,000
I did a track called Laceranissima in about 1990, which was still, you know, it was still

815
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,480
stop motion claymation video was still being kind of referenced and still being used then.

816
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,600
And that was, that was done by my old school friend, Dan Simpson.

817
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,200
And he did, you know, and that, I think, um, started it all.

818
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,560
It's just absolutely fascinating.

819
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:47,760
I think it was recorded at Ashcombe house, which was, uh, a house in box, not in box

820
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:53,520
in Woolley, uh, where I, in a bizarre twist of fate, we ended up renting the building

821
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:57,520
with a band that I used to be in, uh, and recording that.

822
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,920
And it was just amazing to think this is while Realwood was being built because Peter Gable

823
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,200
had moved out and was obviously touring.

824
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,120
So everywhere, it's a fascinating thing.

825
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,800
And just all the individual elements.

826
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,760
I don't know, Paul, if you've got a chance to, to check some of it, it was just, it's

827
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:17,600
like a proper iconic record with one of those tracks with everything's a hook.

828
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,040
Basically, isn't it?

829
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:19,360
Yeah.

830
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:26,880
I mean, that shakuhachi sound from the beginning, was it emulator or fair like that?

831
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,880
It's in the original, it's in the original emulator library, but you have to kind of,

832
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,760
in order to do it, you have to go, but yeah.

833
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:34,260
Yes.

834
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,280
You have to play really fast, I think.

835
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:41,600
Yeah.

836
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,840
And then you get that, that sound is really, really good.

837
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,960
By the way, just in case, you know, you never know who's watching.

838
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,480
Peter, give me a call.

839
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:49,760
I've got a song idea.

840
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,480
Anyway, yeah, I know, Troy Mullock.

841
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:10,160
The thing is, right, it's so iconic for so many reasons that it's like a forever, evergreen

842
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:16,800
kind of topic, you know, this kind of album, the more you go down the rabbit hole of the

843
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,280
production and the people behind it and stuff like that.

844
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,400
I think it was, the album was so, wasn't it?

845
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:24,960
I think.

846
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:25,840
Yes, it was.

847
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:29,040
And was it the one we don't give up on it?

848
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,400
Don't give up on Red Rain, all those classics.

849
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:40,480
Interestingly, I mean, probably Peter's last pop type of thing.

850
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,960
I mean, some of the tunes recently have been absolutely amazing, but this was so pure,

851
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:52,320
but such a purely, I know that legendarily it takes a very long time to make these kind

852
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:52,960
of things, you know.

853
00:51:53,920 --> 00:52:00,080
I think, yeah, I mean, it was really pop because after, on stuff like

854
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,520
the 1992 one with Talk To Me and...

855
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:08,400
Up.

856
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:12,480
Is it Up or Us?

857
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,200
I can't remember.

858
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:13,940
Us.

859
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,760
And Digging In The Dirt, which is my favourite Peter Gabriel song, apart from the earlier

860
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,400
stuff on Melt and things like that, Intruder I love.

861
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:37,280
He went either kind of cool world music after this album, he went kind of cool world music

862
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,480
or kind of a little bit darker, you know.

863
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:46,960
I know he did a song called, a few years later, called Darkness, which is really, really dark,

864
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,200
you know, and really, really cool.

865
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,600
So this possibly was his most poppy song.

866
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:02,480
And, you know, there's some kind of, on the live tour of this, there's some jazz poppy

867
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:09,120
arrangements of earlier kind of grungier tunes like No Self Control, which is another

868
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,240
favourite of mine.

869
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:14,000
But I digress anyway.

870
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:19,360
This song, I think I first heard on the Beavis and Burrhead show, randomly.

871
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,520
You remember, they used to watch music videos.

872
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,680
They used to watch music videos in between the, you know, Hey Beavis,

873
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,320
kind of sketches.

874
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,400
And then, and this came on.

875
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:41,680
And, of course, it's Peter Gabriel having loads of water thrown in his face, and then

876
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,200
on a roller coaster, and then a dancing chicken.

877
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,240
And then all of these cool, like, you know, funk riffs are played.

878
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:50,000
I think it's Tony Levin on bass, isn't it?

879
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:51,440
Oh, yeah.

880
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,040
On Chapman's stick.

881
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:54,800
No, it wasn't.

882
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:55,360
No, it wasn't.

883
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,240
It was Music Master.

884
00:53:59,040 --> 00:53:59,760
Oh, that's cool.

885
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,040
That's awesome.

886
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,600
With an octave higher.

887
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:09,840
Who is another musician who's just absolutely played in some absolutely amazing ensembles

888
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:10,320
and stuff.

889
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,160
Yeah, no, really good.

890
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:12,800
Stuff like that.

891
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:23,600
So it's, the world may see it as a, just his most number one pop, poppy, throwaway

892
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:24,800
masterpiece, maybe.

893
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:32,800
But the actual depth and the musicianship in this layers, in these layers, is absolutely

894
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,000
phenomenal.

895
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:39,600
Because it would have been, 86, it would have been pre-Pro Tools, you know, because

896
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:45,440
I think Manicacci, Manicacci was one of those drummers who was, was really popular because

897
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:52,320
he had a real stylistic kind of, it was that thing when you do the, on the little, you

898
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,360
have the little splash symbol, and the drum fills that fell over the, the bar boundary,

899
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,040
and those are, you know, I mean, as well as everything else.

900
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,720
I mean, he's a bloody great drummer.

901
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:06,480
So it had, that was the thing that was interesting to me, and this was actually a very pedestrian

902
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,080
arrangement in a lot of ways, you know, in terms of instrumentation, but everyone, there

903
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,920
was a really interesting story in the video about how Peter Gabriel wanted to use the

904
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,160
Memphis horns because he'd seen Otis Redding play.

905
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:17,120
Yeah.

906
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:22,640
Back in, you know, at some point, and he got the original, the remaining member did the

907
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,840
horn arrangement for that, and it's a beautiful horn arrangement as well.

908
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,360
It's just, I think it's a masterpiece, guys.

909
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,760
I mean, I know you'd appreciate this because it's live musicians, right?

910
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,720
Well, yeah, and also David Rhodes was integral in the arrangement of this.

911
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,160
I was fortunate enough to tour with David as his bass player, and he told me about,

912
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:46,880
partly about the writing of this and how, interestingly, he wasn't in the writing credits,

913
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,720
but he'd sort of done largely a lot of the arrangement of it.

914
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:58,160
Peter being of the more old school top line and lyric kind of is the song, and I thought

915
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,520
about that for a while, and I was thinking, yeah, because like, if you imagine like a

916
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,320
female jazz pianist doing it in a different key,

917
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,040
the song would survive that transformation, wouldn't it?

918
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,680
But it's got nothing to do with the original arrangement.

919
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:18,720
And I kind of thought about that.

920
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:23,760
I was like, oh, okay, yeah, sort of, you know, it's, yeah, anyway, but I find quite

921
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:29,040
interesting, though, how, because the arrangement, the sound, everything combines on this,

922
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,920
and as Paulie mentioned, the video was just immense, and without the video,

923
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:35,520
it probably wouldn't have been the massive success.

924
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,680
Well, it was one of those things that MTV.

925
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:43,760
And it was our beloved Bristol Aardman animation who were responsible for it.

926
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,480
Did you notice, when you saw the video, it's brilliant, there's all these little things,

927
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,400
it always is like, that bit looks like the pepperami advert that they did like 10 years later.

928
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

929
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,880
Yeah, it's brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

930
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,560
And now, obviously, we've been talking about 2011, and the way his bass is, you know,

931
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,280
it's super compressed on this, and it's a...

932
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:03,520
Octivider as well, isn't it?

933
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:10,080
Yeah, and it's the way it moves, it's just, it's fantastic.

934
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,160
I don't think you could do that.

935
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,200
I mean, not only that, but one thing I noticed,

936
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,400
it's really hard to play with an octivider that cleanly,

937
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,280
and he's got loads of really good articulations.

938
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,080
You play an octave up, I know that, but yeah, amazingly.

939
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,320
I saw Tony playing, like I mentioned, I think to you before,

940
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,640
about when I saw him playing with Beat a few months ago.

941
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:33,680
Yeah, it was fantastic.

942
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:34,480
Oh, wow.

943
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,880
Tony had just turned 80 years old, you know,

944
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,960
and there he was, sprightly as ever, playing as brilliantly as he ever did,

945
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,920
and, you know, and I was just bowled over by his...

946
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,680
He's one of my, you know, the bass player part of me.

947
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,200
Tony is one of my biggest idols, amazing.

948
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,560
In fact, I was, you know, I was quite humbled

949
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,400
when I went out on tour with David,

950
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,040
to think that, like, David's used to playing with Tony,

951
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,120
and I was going, no, he's saddled with me.

952
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:04,320
Did you Tony up?

953
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:05,280
Did you have to Tony up?

954
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,680
Did you think about shaving your head and growing a moustache?

955
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:15,120
But see, he's just the coolest of the cool, I think Tony is.

956
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:19,920
But his bass line, you know, but I mean, it is, isn't it?

957
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,040
It's sort of, maybe this, I haven't watched it yet,

958
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,280
so I apologise for that, but the breakdown,

959
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,640
but just off the top of my head, thinking about just the layers,

960
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,360
and as you say, it is, everything is hooks, isn't it?

961
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:32,640
Because that bass line,

962
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:35,680
all that syncopation in the bass line, and, you know,

963
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,680
that's all hook, that's all hooky, isn't it?

964
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,200
And the drum fill, you know, and the loop,

965
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,040
it's not a loop, but you know, it is, yeah.

966
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,360
Yeah, just, you know, and it's sort of,

967
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,400
in some ways, it's like the 80s, the most 80s thing ever.

968
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,360
Do you think, I think it pre, I think it post,

969
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,840
I think it's very post 80s, but it happened in the 80s.

970
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:58,720
That's the thing I would say.

971
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,480
Okay, yeah, okay, fair point, fair point.

972
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,120
And what I was going to go on to say, I was, I was meaning, you know, 1986, MTV,

973
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,880
the video, all of that kind of stuff is being sort of like, as a kind of thing.

974
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,720
But I was going to say that's, but the song transcends the era

975
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,760
and still manages to sound super fresh,

976
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:21,200
where some 80s production sounds kind of really laboured and stiff.

977
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,840
This has movement, it has groove, it has feeling, and it's-

978
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:26,400
And the song.

979
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,880
And like, you know, I remember distinctly hearing it for the very first time.

980
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,080
I'm sure many of us do.

981
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,680
It was around the same time, I think, as Addicted to Love by Robert Palmer.

982
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:38,720
Oh, yeah, okay.

983
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,880
You know, which had, for me, a similar impact of just this kind of,

984
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:49,920
like, it's so in your face, the production, you know, but Sledgehammer was-

985
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,720
I mean, it followed all the, you know, all the,

986
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:54,640
but Sledgehammer was-

987
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,200
I mean, it followed all the classics.

988
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,720
I mean, apart from the length, because at that time, to get on the radio,

989
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,880
it was like three minutes, three minutes 30.

990
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,920
This is five minutes, 45 seconds long.

991
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,120
I mean, it's ridiculous.

992
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:09,040
But it had, you know, it has the,

993
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:11,280
and that's the intro.

994
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,520
And it's like, okay, right, we know what this track is.

995
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,320
And so it's literally-

996
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:17,840
It's Sledgehammer time.

997
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:18,880
Yeah, Sledgehammer time.

998
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,400
And yeah, it's just a masterpiece in sort of pop production.

999
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,000
Apart from the length and the arrangement.

1000
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:33,360
The arrangement is intro, verse one, verse two, re-intro, double chorus,

1001
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,920
middle eight, and then outro.

1002
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,960
There's only two, there's only, no, there's only two choruses in it,

1003
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:41,200
which is unusual.

1004
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:42,400
It's not chorus repeat.

1005
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:42,800
It's-

1006
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,640
No, and it sticks though, doesn't it?

1007
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:45,840
It really sticks.

1008
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:50,000
I mean, yeah, masterful in every-

1009
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:55,760
Going into the, you know, going into the minor key at the end with the whole,

1010
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:00,880
♪ I kick the hair a bit, kick the hair a bit, kick the hair a bit. ♪

1011
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,640
The backing vocals are superb.

1012
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:05,760
Careful, we'll get busted.

1013
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,760
Yeah, the backing vocals, yeah.

1014
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,600
Anyway, I just, it's a joy to behold.

1015
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,640
It's well worth, just if you've not, because I've never heard the multitrack,

1016
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,560
and I'd be interested to know where he gets them.

1017
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,240
I mean, I get, I wonder if it's stem separations,

1018
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,240
or a lot of these end up on the internet, don't they?

1019
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:19,920
I kind of wondered that.

1020
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,240
But he had the reverb from the drums separately,

1021
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,720
which I think was a very specific track,

1022
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,080
and that would have been quite hard to-

1023
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:27,200
That would have to be multitrack.

1024
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,400
And just listening to the mix, I was listening to the mix beforehand,

1025
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,120
and there's the ding-ding-ding, the guitars,

1026
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:34,320
and they're all sort of quite quiet,

1027
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,200
and then at the end, in the outro, he turns it back really loud.

1028
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,160
It's like, whoa, bloody hell, louder than the drums almost,

1029
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:41,120
and then back down again.

1030
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:42,880
It's quite a very dynamic mix,

1031
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,640
and that's, I think that was Daniel-

1032
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,080
One of Daniel Lanoir's, that was his entry

1033
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,800
onto the super producer kind of world stage, I think, wasn't it?

1034
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,400
Oh, he's incredible, Daniel Lanoir.

1035
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:59,120
Yeah, he's, yeah, wow, yeah, Daniel Lanoir, what a career.

1036
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,720
He's well worth an episode alone, isn't he?

1037
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,000
Just many episodes, just sort of looking at his work,

1038
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,520
and his absolutely different approach to things.

1039
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,040
Yeah, amazing.

1040
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,400
Absolutely, well, anyway, that's quite a joyful note to end on.

1041
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,680
We don't have to talk about anything like that, but hurrah!

1042
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:21,680
It's been lovely talking to you.

1043
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,040
Thank you so much for joining, Gaz.

1044
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:24,960
You've got anything coming up?

1045
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,720
You're streaming, you're doing any kind of,

1046
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:27,920
any of that sort of business?

1047
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,680
Oh, God, I keep saying that I'm going to, and I do intend to.

1048
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,600
Yeah, well, you do it when you're ready, don't you?

1049
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:35,760
Yeah, I suppose so, but again, just if you've missed it

1050
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,160
at the top of the show, you know, Saturday night,

1051
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:43,600
playing with Steve Davis in Bristol, in kit form,

1052
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,360
Saturday night, as part of Leap Club.

1053
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,800
But there's a whole host of things just bubbling under,

1054
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,200
so I have got various news.

1055
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,720
Oh, you went to see Poitrine de, what's it, didn't you?

1056
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,040
I went to see Poitrine last night, I went to see them.

1057
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,080
Okay, show's not over yet, I want to hear about it.

1058
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,360
It's worth it, because, you know, for a start,

1059
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,680
because there is a technical element, like a music tech element to it,

1060
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,320
which I think is quite interesting to try and dissect.

1061
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,840
A few of my musician friends, Greg, the drummer of Quasimodo,

1062
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:15,120
was there with me yesterday as well.

1063
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:19,120
So we were, you know, we were really, everybody,

1064
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:20,800
everybody there was just blown away.

1065
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,960
It was a three and a half thousand people there,

1066
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,480
which is, you know, amazing.

1067
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,440
Last time they played in Bristol was Strange Brew earlier in the year,

1068
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,160
which is like, I don't know, I guess about 300 capacity.

1069
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,880
You know, and then to sell out, it sold out within the first hour,

1070
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,240
I think the tickets were on sale.

1071
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,240
Well, you know, and this is this thing, isn't it, you know,

1072
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,240
where something that's gone viral, which everybody, you know,

1073
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,480
everybody in the world, it seemed, got exposed to it.

1074
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:53,280
And as with these things, you know, does it live up to the hype?

1075
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,200
Can they actually do it live?

1076
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:56,880
And my goodness, they can.

1077
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:01,760
And it's such a feat of technical wizardry.

1078
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:02,720
It's amazing.

1079
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,720
But there's something like they managed to get the balance right

1080
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:14,560
of this complexity of microtonality, polyrhythms,

1081
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,480
or maybe, yeah, odd time signatures.

1082
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,960
The guitarist, or the thing,

1083
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:28,240
there's thing one and thing two, I have no idea.

1084
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:30,800
So let's say guitarist is thing one.

1085
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:34,560
Mastery of looping.

1086
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,600
I was realizing how much they bank loops.

1087
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:43,440
I think they're using a 505 boss foot looper,

1088
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:44,560
but they might be using more.

1089
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,880
I haven't actually managed to see the pedal boards,

1090
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:53,040
but playing a riff, then that riff loops,

1091
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,360
switching over from the guitar to the bass,

1092
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:57,520
putting a bass line in,

1093
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:03,440
playing like a kind of polyrhythmic part over the top of that,

1094
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,640
then muting the original riffs.

1095
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:13,680
The polyrhythmic part plays a moment that they've already sort of laid down.

1096
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:15,440
They mute the other licks.

1097
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,200
Then the drummer switches onto the new rhythm

1098
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,160
exactly on moment.

1099
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:23,600
Yeah, astonishing.

1100
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,600
You can, and then bringing in these other parts,

1101
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,520
but everything, there's no backing tracks.

1102
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,560
Everything that you hear is created in the,

1103
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:32,560
you know, is created.

1104
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,760
And then, as I say, looped, performed back.

1105
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,920
So Chris Powell, a great friend of mine was there,

1106
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:41,680
and afterwards we were going,

1107
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:45,120
they must have a click track running to sort of,

1108
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,520
because the way, you know, but that's,

1109
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:48,800
that the audience doesn't hear.

1110
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,000
And that's not a problem at all.

1111
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:57,600
It's just that in order to kind of be so synchronized with the looper,

1112
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,000
they must have to have something just holding time

1113
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,000
because they do all these stops.

1114
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,200
Do you know what, what does it use?

1115
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:04,320
What's the looper that they use?

1116
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:05,040
Is it a 505?

1117
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,880
As I said, I think it might be a five,

1118
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:11,120
sorry, the 500, the floor version of the 505,

1119
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:13,760
the RC 500.

1120
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:17,520
Oh, which, because that has a tempo sync drum track

1121
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,680
you can send out of a click track output.

1122
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,160
You can have it just do cowbells or.

1123
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:23,920
Yeah, exactly.

1124
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:25,360
That's my, and that's what,

1125
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,760
how I feel that they are managing to do it.

1126
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,840
However, you know, you're looking at this thing about

1127
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:31,600
how difficult can you make it for them?

1128
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,560
You know, not only.

1129
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,880
Wear a mask, that means you can't see anything.

1130
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,800
Yeah, with tiny little eye holes.

1131
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,800
And then, but you're also having to do,

1132
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:45,360
you know, you're playing microtonally on both instruments.

1133
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,560
So there's so many.

1134
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:52,080
His back is going to be so, so knackered

1135
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,400
after a couple of tours.

1136
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:55,200
And I feel so.

1137
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:57,440
It's something funny.

1138
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,760
There's so many things that are funny that happen though

1139
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:00,960
in between songs.

1140
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,800
They kind of, they do this thing,

1141
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,640
that's the symbol, like a triangle.

1142
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,080
And, you know, and it's so funny how everybody's kind of

1143
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,400
induced into this kind of cultism.

1144
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,720
Like anytime, everyone's there in the audience holding it.

1145
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,320
And you could just look and see, you know,

1146
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:18,480
thousands of people all doing this symbol.

1147
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,560
I think really, ultimately though,

1148
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,560
and the final thing I'd like to say about this

1149
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:29,120
is just the way that it connects with people on a visceral

1150
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:33,360
and I think they kind of got their pop smarts about them.

1151
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:34,720
They've, they sort of know.

1152
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:36,800
Well, they're big on iconography.

1153
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,600
I mean, and that's how it brings, makes sense.

1154
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,800
I would, I just, I just like to say a point, okay.

1155
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:45,360
Many people don't know this.

1156
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:46,320
Perhaps they've never heard of it.

1157
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:51,120
Ted Milton of Blurt, very famous sort of punk band in the UK.

1158
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,360
He used to have an alter ego called Mr. Pew,

1159
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:55,120
called Pew's Puppets.

1160
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,000
As a child, I used to see Pew's Puppets playing

1161
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,200
and they looked like that.

1162
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,000
And I wonder whether they'd seen pictures.

1163
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,280
So they'd have like massive great noses and sort of long things

1164
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,800
and then dot and polka dots.

1165
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:09,760
I was just looking at them.

1166
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,840
I could only find, yeah, it's really interesting idea.

1167
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,240
So if you get a chance, so Walker Festival,

1168
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:15,840
when I was a child, that's where I would go

1169
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,480
and hang out at, into my 14, 15.

1170
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,440
Mr. Pew's Puppets used to play there in the field

1171
01:08:21,440 --> 01:08:23,680
and Mr. Pew's Puppet, it was like Punch and Judy,

1172
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:27,440
but really bonkers, you know, and like really sort of punk.

1173
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:28,480
Punk, Punch and Judy.

1174
01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:28,880
Yeah.

1175
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:30,640
Anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt there,

1176
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,520
but I suppose I do have to stop the show at some point.

1177
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,920
I think the final point of that was though,

1178
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,240
is they do the, they kind of do the drop

1179
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,480
and then they bring in this groove

1180
01:08:40,480 --> 01:08:42,640
and the audience just go, you know,

1181
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,040
they just play with you for a while,

1182
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:47,360
play with the idea of it.

1183
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,760
It's coming, it's coming and they hold it off until,

1184
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,280
and then pow, and it's just irresistible.

1185
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,640
Yeah, top, top, 10 out of 10, phenomenal.

1186
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:57,200
Yeah.

1187
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:58,080
Fantastic.

1188
01:08:58,080 --> 01:08:59,280
Yeah, it's an interesting one.

1189
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:00,480
Math Rock for the win.

1190
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:04,640
I hate that term, I hate that term.

1191
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:05,920
What would you call it then, Gaz?

1192
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:08,160
For me, it's Space Rock.

1193
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,160
It sounded like, it sounds like gong.

1194
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:11,840
It sounds like the Omriff, you know,

1195
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:13,840
it sounds like it's, it's space.

1196
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,280
I think it's, I think it's got,

1197
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,520
because this is, it's aliens making Space Rock.

1198
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:19,360
Okay, fair enough.

1199
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:20,320
Paulie, how would you describe it?

1200
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:21,360
Not Math Rock.

1201
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:22,480
Not Math Rock.

1202
01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:24,160
Okay, Space Rock sounds good enough.

1203
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:27,920
Yeah, it is kind of space, isn't it?

1204
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,880
I, I, um, I would love it

1205
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,640
if we were allowed more weird bands in the mainstream.

1206
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:40,320
Basically, it's like, they're absolutely amazing,

1207
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,480
but I'm like, can we just have loads more of that?

1208
01:09:44,480 --> 01:09:46,480
Well, no, but this is, I mean, without,

1209
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:48,560
without starting a whole new topic,

1210
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,080
that I think this is one of the,

1211
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,520
I think this is one of the, the byproducts of

1212
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:56,400
bypassing the music industry,

1213
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,040
because if it was left to a regular record company,

1214
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:00,480
kind of A&R route,

1215
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:02,320
this band would never have existed,

1216
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,520
or they would never, but because they've got the,

1217
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,040
they've got the imagery, they've got the,

1218
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:08,720
and everybody's going, what the hell is that?

1219
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:10,400
And they've gone via YouTube.

1220
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:12,480
And here's an interesting thing.

1221
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,280
The thing that went viral is the KEXP session,

1222
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:16,960
which was like a mini concert.

1223
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,520
I think you had five tunes, maybe six,

1224
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:20,400
four to six tunes.

1225
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:21,680
I'm not sure how many it was,

1226
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,600
but rather than sometimes when something goes viral,

1227
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:24,400
it might be a song.

1228
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:26,080
It might even be a clip of something.

1229
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:27,440
But what actually went viral

1230
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:29,440
was like a substantial performance

1231
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,600
where you got to hear numerous songs.

1232
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,680
And I thought, wow, I've not actually,

1233
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,440
that's what really stuck with me.

1234
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:37,760
I was thinking, because most people I know

1235
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,080
watched, were compelled to watch all these songs.

1236
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,400
And by the time you've actually watched a bunch of them,

1237
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:44,240
you kind of get it.

1238
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,000
You sort of go, oh, this stuff is great.

1239
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,840
So I think it was quite interesting

1240
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,880
that in this short attention span era,

1241
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,080
that the thing that kind of did catch was,

1242
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:55,600
wasn't just a single song, as I say,

1243
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,920
was that particular performance.

1244
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,040
I think it's KEXP and, you know.

1245
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:01,840
Yeah, that's true.

1246
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:02,480
That's very good.

1247
01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:03,440
And very powerful.

1248
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:04,640
That's Angine de Portrine,

1249
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:06,320
just for my transcription software,

1250
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,800
which we'll have to try and pull out this chapter.

1251
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:10,880
Right, interesting.

1252
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,680
Okay, well, let's call it there.

1253
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:15,040
Paulie, lovely to see you.

1254
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,400
I guess you'll be looking at things

1255
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:19,920
which we can't talk about at the moment,

1256
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:22,160
but I'm sure you've got lots of other stuff going on.

1257
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,080
I noticed you did some, you did the,

1258
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,200
well, I don't know what you've been doing videos for.

1259
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:28,640
You probably can't talk about any of it.

1260
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:30,480
So, you know, I'm sure you're busy.

1261
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:35,440
I've done a video for a Eurorack module

1262
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:39,600
by Trilling Synths called the Dark Dual Arpeggio.

1263
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,960
And it's an absolutely fantastic dual arpeggio

1264
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:46,400
that you can either just run as two arpeggiators

1265
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,320
or completely mess up with CV,

1266
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,520
but still keep it kind of in time, you know.

1267
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,800
And I was doing some weird polyrhythmic stuff myself

1268
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,960
with that, synchronizing it

1269
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:01,840
to a 1984 Cheetah Spec drum machine,

1270
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:04,080
which was cool.

1271
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:08,720
But the other thing I wanted to mention is

1272
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,320
I'm going to be going to SynthFest in Sheffield.

1273
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:13,440
Oh, yes, of course.

1274
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:14,320
Yes, fantastic.

1275
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:18,400
Which is going to be awesome.

1276
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:20,320
You know, I think that's going to be the cure

1277
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,560
for my kind of burnout and, you know.

1278
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:28,560
I did, I forgot to mention, SynthFest is on the 24th,

1279
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:29,920
isn't it, in Sheffield.

1280
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:31,040
Sadly, you can't be there.

1281
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:32,880
So, yes, do check that out.

1282
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:35,680
SynthFest UK, Paulie will be there.

1283
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,600
And it's the sort of sound on sound organized event.

1284
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:38,480
I forgot to plug it.

1285
01:12:38,480 --> 01:12:40,160
I did post a news item about it, I think.

1286
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:42,240
But anyway, yeah.

1287
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:43,600
So that'll be a lot of fun.

1288
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,480
And then slightly later on the 30th,

1289
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:50,080
I'm at Birmingham Conservatoire teaching them

1290
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:54,640
about how to scare people, witless, with sound.

1291
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:57,600
So there we go.

1292
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:58,160
That's me.

1293
01:12:59,040 --> 01:12:59,520
Excellent.

1294
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:00,880
Well, lovely to see.

1295
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:01,920
I've already asked you, Gaz.

1296
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:03,600
And then we talked about pottering.

1297
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,440
So I won't give you another outro.

1298
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:06,400
No.

1299
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,080
But thank you so much, everybody.

1300
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:08,640
That's finished.

1301
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:09,920
That's finished.

1302
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:10,720
Thanks ever so much.

1303
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:12,240
It was lovely talking to you all.

1304
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,440
That was Sonic Talk, episode 913.

1305
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:17,200
See you all.

1306
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:18,400
We'll be back in a couple of weeks.

1307
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:19,840
We'll be back in November.

1308
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,880
There will be a pre-record, hopefully, on one of the weeks.

1309
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:24,480
I haven't decided when it's going to go.

1310
01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:25,440
See you later, folks.

1311
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:26,000
Take care.

1312
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:26,640
Bye-bye now.

1313
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:27,860
Bye.

1314
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:32,580
Bye.

1315
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:02,580
Bye.