(Music)
Nick: Hello everybody, welcome to Sonic Talk, episode 894, recording today on 27th May, at
the end of May, in fact. Gosh, yes, and you'll notice, I mean, a slightly different
surroundings here. This is actually my house because it's that time of year where
the office becomes, or the studio becomes uncoolable. And so I'm here sitting under
my weak air conditioning. I've figured out, I could use, I've got a cuckoo style, I
can kind of show you that, well, my view. So I've got a nice view of the back garden
and trees and whatnot. So there I am. Welcome everybody. Well, before I get into
the, I often have to say this at the start of the show, that this is not a UK
weather podcast. We actually are here to talk about music technology and the whatnot
and the like. And before we get into introducing our guests, I'll just do a bit of
housekeeping. I just want to let you know, coming up, check out the current
competition that's running. You can win an Ovation base station 2, Swiftie Edition,
which is the sort of specially designed by the legendary urban.
Artist, I guess, Ian Swiftie Swift.
Episode 3 of Sonic Retrocast is up with Ravi Abbot. That's Paulie's show, host of
the retro hour and pirate radio. So they have an interesting chat about 90s pirate
radio, which was a really big thing in the UK. I don't know if it's translated
across the world, but it was it was a sort of precursor or I guess just maybe around
the same time as the rave scene, maybe a little bit later. We've got a Korg 7000,
700 S, five minutes with coming up from Chris. That'll be going to members only
tomorrow.
And there's a don't forget to check out the enjoy electronics to feel an elf. Elf.
Elf. I think that's how you pronounce it. Video that mouse has done for us. If that
mouse has got a video coming up live tonight, three Atlantices, a pulsar and a bunch
of other stuff. Jam that is doing. If you want to check out his super stuff. Mass,
mass, mass on YouTube about five thirty. So straight after the show, I'm not sure
how long it's going to be, but he asked me to mention it. So I have few. There we
go. Right. Before I get into the guest, I'll do the one last thing, which is play a
plug for our Patreon and YouTube memberships, because I do encourage you to join.
We've got a lot of stuff going up there at the moment. So here we go. Well, let's
let's welcome Amanda, because Amanda, Amanda Whiting-Gestle, who some of you may
know, I would say I probably know Amanda for a very long time. I think she was the
first 20 years, 20 years, 20 years. Yeah. 20 years. The working at Roland, I think,
was the first time we met you, right?
Amanda: Yeah, maybe at Roland and maybe even at Emadio. I was at Emadio and then Roland.
And yeah, so I've been in the music technology and pro audio industry my whole
career doing marketing. So I've had a lot of fun showing off new synths, new
keyboards, new products.
And always a highlight of that is the visit to Sonic State and seeing Nick and Annie
at the shows. Yeah. Well, it's great to be on the show.
No, well,
you're welcome.
Nick: I've been sending myself, I've been sending invites out for ages and we finally
managed to persuade Amanda to come on. Amanda is also doing her own. I guess you're
independent marketing and PR and strategy.
Amanda: Yeah, so I'm doing an independent marketing consultancy. So I'm doing strategic
marketing for music, tech and pro audio full stack. So yeah, so I do brand comms,
but I also do full funnel audits of people's marketing and working with a lot of
founders actually who are bringing products to market for the first time.
And, and yeah, I'm my, my, you know, I worked at Roland, Splice, Universal Audio,
some big companies doing a lot of go to markets and product launches. And so now I'm
trying to take that knowledge and bring it to people who are trying to bring their
products to market, especially in this very interesting time we're living in. Yeah,
a crime. It's fun. It's exciting. And I am, I am just super, super jazz to be here.
Nick: Nice. Well, I'm always a pleasure to have you. Well, this is the first time. So I'm
a pleasure to have you. And I was also got Ty, Ty, I can't believe it. Ty, two weeks
in a row. What's going on? Never
Ty: a pleasure to have me.
Yeah, what is going on? Two weeks in a row. I'm not on for forever. And then two
weeks in a row. So, so don't worry. I won't trouble your door for a while now.
Maybe, maybe Christmas.
Have you muted yourself again?
Nick: I have. I don't know what it is. I've got the heat.
I'm going to say it's the heat. Yeah. Ty, of course, media composer and always busy.
Just, just, I just got the album out with Midjure. Yeah. How's that going? Is it on
any charts? What sort of charts would it be on? I have
Ty: no idea. I have no idea. I once it's done, I literally have no idea. All I know is
the general reviews have been fairly amazing. Actually, they've been really good.
The general feeling about it is very positive. So that's good. It means I did
something right for a change. So, so yes, so all good, all very good. Although right
at this moment, I don't know. They said last week, I was working on some BBC
documents. I don't quite know where I stand in that moment. Because having has
having never walked from a project or been sacked from a project ever in my life. I
don't quite know where I stand with it. This right at this moment, I may have
walked, I may have been sacked. I may still be on it. I may still be on it. And I
genuinely don't know. Oh, no, it's a good thing. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, it was
basically because it was a particular project that wasn't going well. And, and you
can only deal with idiots further up the ladder.
To a certain extent. And then eventually you have to kind of open your mouth and
kind of push back.
And I opened my mouth and kind of push back. Honestly, some of the stairs I was
getting were hilarious. I mean, at some pace, there's a when we see when I know they
were hysterical. I mean, beyond, you know, it's like when you're dealing with people
who know nothing about nothing, it was a bit like that anyway. So anyway, so I don't
know where I stand, I could be on it. I could be sacked. I could have created
prompts. I really don't have a clue. But I can all I can say is I feel great because
of it. Because otherwise, I'd have had to kill myself for the last week. And I can't
be and so I'm so happy about it.
Nick: Well, that's good. I mean, I guess in seeing that that's a good thing, right? I
mean, I know it's very much good. Yeah, I've spoken to a couple of people like this.
I mean, I guess you probably get this as well. I mean, based at your base in San
Diego, right? But which is close enough to to Hollywood.
Amanda: It's close to Santa Cruz is Northern California, but I'm down there quite a bit. So
it's all good.
Nick: Santa Cruz. Right. I'm sorry. That's why I was thinking, is it really that cold? But
Santa Cruz is further north, isn't it?
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, like project based stuff.
Nick: Yeah, it's interesting. I was talking to somebody not that long ago, and they said
they were working on, I think it was an Apple TV thing. And it got to the point
where they were having these meetings with everybody apart from the director, who
had an opinion on what the music should be. And like, they're the musicians. And
it's like, well,
didn't you hire me because you like what I do, not because you want me to do
something that somebody else.
Ty: In this particular, in this particular instance, you know, kind of the, I can't
really obviously go into too much detail, but the spoken I personally spoke to high
upon high admitted that they didn't understand music and knew nothing about music.
And they were really feeding back from the person who was higher than them, who
admitted they knew nothing about music, and still trying to make music.
Amanda: Can you make it more sparkly, please?
Ty: Oh, no, that's fine. I can do sparkly. I can do sparkly. But yeah, I can't go into
too much detail, because if I go to too much detail, it becomes very specific, and
they will absolutely know who. But all I'm going to say is the reference, the
artists and the tracks they were citing were just, it would just leave you in
disbelief to the extent. And again, I can't say who, but when I spoke to the
director, the director and I, almost every conversation after one of these, these
things were cited, almost every conversation started with us both in complete
silence, until one of us would go, okay, then that would be after about 20 seconds
of silence, because neither of us could get their heads around what was being
suggested. And it literally did get to the stage where I was going to have
essentially six days of killing myself with no sleep, not knowing what I was going
to do. Not knowing, not understanding what they wanted, and where they wanted or
what they wanted, because it was so contrary. And it literally did just get staged
with it going, no, no, no, I've done this. It's not worth the hassle, basically. So
I feel great about it. So congratulations.
Nick: Thank you. I don't know if I've told this story before, but I once, I was once
working in, I think it was a, I can't remember which one it was, one of the big New
York Studios, Power Station, I think it was, and we were working with a, shall we
say, a long in the tooth girl band who were, who the record company had seen that
we'd had a bit of success with some urban type stuff in the UK and said, we want you
to apply this to revive the careers of these, these lovely individuals. They were
really nice, but it was literally every day they'd come in and listen, you know, so
we'd be working on stuff. They'd want them. We'd have to then stop at a certain time
just to do a board mix so that then we could then play it to them so they could give
us feedback. And after about three days of this, I mean, this is really early in my
career when I wasn't used to dealing with this kind of situation.
And we got to the point where it's just, I just, I don't really know. So we got it.
I got in the lift. And as we came, as we came down,
the guy in question came in and started going, and I said, look, honestly, we don't
have it. I don't understand what it is you want. Why don't you go upstairs and work
with the guy and get what you want and then play us that because I just don't, I
don't understand. Needless to say, it wasn't, wasn't a smash, but it was, we were
retainers. That was my first experience of that. And it was quite as guys, I was
only in my early twenties and I was sort of like, is this all right? It feels like,
but I was so cross. And you just, you just think it's such a waste of time. Anyway,
that's, I guess that's by the by, but this is all interesting inside information.
You know, people, I don't think people often understand what happens, the creative
interface, you know, and I suppose this could lead us on to a very interesting
experience. It could lead us on to some aspects of what we're going to talk about.
Ty: But bear in mind, you know, I've been doing this for whatever it is 35 years and
I've never, I've never ever got to this situation. I've never got to the state of
I've never walked. And I've never, it's never ever got to the stage where it, you
know, kind of the, it's just impossible. It was just impossible. That's basically
it. And so in 35 years, I think I've done well, but I also think, to be fair, I also
think back, you know, kind of 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I would have been more
bothered about pleasing people and taking the money. And do you know what I mean? I
think I would have had more patience then, but you kind of get to a point as you get
older where you just go, this is not worth it. And that's where I'm at.
Nick: I mean, the show must go on, isn't it? That's sort of so much the thing, you know, I
mean, and Andy, you're a DJ as well. So, I mean, you get that whole thing and there
are, you know, you've got the deal, you've got the deadline. And I think, I mean,
You do the thing and you just white knuckle it. Some of those deadlines are
absolutely horrific and it's like literally, right, coming to the studio now, we'll
finish it tonight. It's got to be in at 10 o'clock in the morning sort of thing.
Amanda: Yeah, you white knuckle it and then you just go and get it done and then you never
call them again.
Absolutely.
Right. That's what I, that's how you get the paycheck and run.
Ty: Believe me, there are two people, there are two people on my list of this that it's
just like people to never work with again. These two people are very much on that
list. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to bring this today.
Nick: Well, that cheery note.
But I mean, one of the reasons that we have you two on again, that's certainly Tyne
again and Amanda again is because we, we, we sort of spoke about the, the Native
instrument situation. Obviously we know,
Native instruments went into liquidation or went into receivership or whatever the
German equivalent is, I'm not entirely sure, you know, it's something along those
lines. And then because they own isotope and they own, what was the other thing?
Plug in the lines. Plug in the lines. That's right. It was kind of complex. And
there was this sort of moment where people were thinking, gosh, what happens if it
goes away? You know, what happens if the servers that, that, that, you know, say the
licenses are valid for my entire orchestral library that I'm in the middle of
scoring a film for or whatever go away? What, what then? And it sort of felt like
almost inconceivable this concept of too big to fail was a sort of, I think with a
pre approach to that.
Amanda: Yeah, definitely. And from a, from, from music standpoint, there's just so many
tools that musicians and, you know, media composers and everyone use every day. And
also, there's a whole ecosystem of indie developers and sample companies that rely
on contact for their sample libraries that they sell independent plug in. And
independent plugin developers that use plugin alliances, like a third party dealer
for their plugins. So it was like on both sides of the equation,
really existential. It was quite a, quite a cloud at the NAMM show for sure. For a
lot of people being like, wait, what's happening? Okay. So I need to go figure out
what I'm going to do with my contact libraries that I'm selling. Right? So yeah, it
was, it was, it was quite, quite the thing.
Nick: It's interesting, isn't it? I mean, I think, I think we, I mean, now we know,
obviously in music have stepped up. There was one of the, I mean, we were riffing on
this stuff in past discussions and in music seemed like one of the most obvious ways
to go. But I know, Ty, I mean, I was thinking at one point, you know, it's like,
okay, we need to get Zimmer, we need to get a few of these really big composers
together, Danny Elfman, and just go buy the server that's got the licensing stuff on
it so that it doesn't go away, you know, need some sort of cool. And it was, it was
so but now that's okay, right? I guess.
Ty: No, it is okay. I, I, the only reason I wasn't worried was for exactly the reason
that you exactly what you've just said, because there are, we all know the one area
of music that really does kind of make money, really is, is film, TV composer,
that's one area that, you know, continues to pay royalties and continues to make
money. And almost every, I mean, I was I would say everybody, but almost everyone I
know that does this relies heavily on contact. I mean, the rest of the NI stuff is
fantastic. And we all you know, we own the complete editions. And it's all great.
But the one thing here that you have to kind of concentrate on really is contact.
And we've all invested huge amounts of money on library. I've literally just looked,
I've just opened up my NI, I think, a couple of years ago, and I was like, I'm going
to do this. I opened up my NI thing. We all know that with contact, you have two
areas, you have the player instruments, and then you have the non player
instruments. So the non player instruments are basically anyone can release those
for contact. And I've got, I don't even know how many thousands of libraries I've
got in those, but thousands and thousands and thousands of libraries in that. But
just in the contact player,
I've, which are the ones that are registered within NI. You have to have the cereals
to work. In other words, if they're so if those cereals disappear from their
servers, we're screwed. I've got 979 libraries just in just in contact player. Okay.
So you can imagine if they go, I would be screwed. The only good thing is because
everybody that uses contact, everybody that does what I do, and is fortunate enough
to make money out of it, the ones really high up who make huge amounts of money out
of it. They they use contact as well. So there was always this belief for me, that
it would never go under because the contact wouldn't even if n I disappeared
somebody exactly as you say somebody with the money would step in and save contact,
even if they couldn't save the rest of NI, they would save contact. So I always
thought contact was was fairly safe long term. The rest of it, I wasn't sure about
in music. I mean, look, what they've they've done what they promised with Akai,
they've done what they've done with the company. What they've done what they
promised with move, they've, they've kept their word and not gone in and completely
screwed everything up, which some people did because they didn't do a great job with
a lysis, let's be honest. So, so so I mean, as someone to come in and buy, I
honestly couldn't really think of anyone better to come in and do the job, to be
fair, as long as they keep their word of basically staying fairly hands off with it.
Amanda: Well, yeah, and you know, they already had some signal that there was already
partnerships happening, right? Partnerships partnering, you know, native instruments
and and Novation, I believe we're we're already the MKM, MPC integration already.
Yeah,
exactly. So they already were in talks. So it was kind of like, okay, so in music
seems like a very likely buyer. The big question that's floating around in my brain
is, you know, in music does a lot of amazing, great stuff with hardware, but how
much have they done on the software side? So this is like a big challenge and
opportunity in the for in music to integrate this software portfolio with their
hardware portfolio. So it, it could be really great, right? It could really ground
out the round out how they're, you know, the offerings they bring to market as well
as just more integrations with software and hardware in general, right? The big
thing really is, is, you know, isotopes, isotope products are very heavily used,
right? And and developed, you know, native as well. And it's a matter of like, can
in music keep those people on board who make those products, right? The developers,
right? Because that's 20 years of of real deep software development. And so the the
way it can be successful is they keep those people on board and keep developing and
because because if they if they leave, they're not going to come back. And that's
going to be the hard part to keep because software is more than just a more, more of
an evolutionary product than hardware, right? And so you really need to keep it up.
And and they had the hands off approach, then then maybe that'll maybe a little
happen.
Nick: I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I should press this because this was actually what I was
going to do, which was that's to mark the topic. Let's talk about native
instruments. So it's marked now anyway, at least. But what I was saying that you
know, that there's a quote from Jack O'Donnell, who is, it's interesting, because
those who perhaps don't know, in music is, as far as I can gather is privately
owned. And previously, isotope and the whole sound wide that began rebranded as a
native instruments, because it seemed to be of cockat was, was more of a VC kind of
funding type of thing. And we ended up in a situation where I feel I expect much of
that sort of stripping out of the unnecessary things like development, which I don't
believe isn't necessary, but maybe some of the the edge cases of that has already
happened. So maybe the good news could be it sort of works as an entire thing, it
just goes bang straight in. And it's like, hey, we've got a sort of match fit
streamlined development team with no dead wood in it. And we can just power on
ahead. Which would be, which would be awesome. And Jack O'Donnell says, and there's
a quote of the tools you rely on today will keep working. The tools we like, you
will rely on tomorrow are being are actively being built. Which is, I mean, what a
great piece of marketing. I mean, that's like that. I think you'd have been proud
and say better with that line. Yeah, it's true or not. I'm not sure. But that's the
thing. I think one area that is interesting is the DJ side of things, obviously,
tractor is a massive sort of DJ engine. So lots of people use that. Whereas they
also own new Mark and Denon already. So there's this hardware, hardware, less of an
issue. I mean, and I do their own hardware. So I'm guessing maybe the hardware will
go away like machina and things like that. And then the other one will be less
supported. And all of that stuff will come across to maybe be more working on the on
the already existing hardware.
Amanda: Yeah, there's definitely redundancies there with the other NPC and the machina
stuff. But yeah, there's dedicated users for both. So it'll be really interesting to
see how that works. Because, yeah, she has like a good following as well. The thing
that's so interesting, you know, I'm a DJ and like Pioneer is just they just got the
hold on the DJ market with their hardware and the clubs and having the controllers
that kind of like move up into the clubs. So, you know, this is with with a tractor
coming into to end music. This is the first time it's like, all right, maybe we got
enough on this side to really make something because because the the software on
Pioneer side is their Achilles heel. So now with and they have instruments, tractor
software is really great. So so there could be opportunities there. We'll just have
to see.
Nick: Yeah, be interesting. I guess I also did you get into machine of time. Sorry.
Ty: I stopped with machine. I got to machine. I got studio machine, a machinist, you do
whichever one that was. And I went up to the I've kept upgrading it. But I went
through a stage of using it. And then when it became the machine of three,
I just kind of I just yeah, it's like everything you kind of has a life and then you
kind of get to a point where you kind of go, okay, I'm not really using this now as
it should be used and you kind of have to at some point jump ship. So I kind of
stopped at machine studio really.
What I had, you know what, since I did the last last setup, I haven't even
reinstalled it in here. So that kind of should tell you everything. But same with
push. I haven't even put my push back in either. So I kind of Yeah, I've just kind
of stopped going down that route bit. I did. The one thing I did want to just say is
I I always I found and I'm not saying this is why and I was struggling. But when
they did the whole buy up of isotope and plugging Alliance.
I don't know what was going on there. I don't know whether that was just feeling a
bit. I don't know whether we're getting too big for their boots. But I I use I I
bought more or less everything that plugging Alliance did and and I still do. Do to
be fair. And same with isotope.
And I've been isotope user since day one of ozone one. And I've literally been there
all the way through it. And when they signed, you know, kind of in the built up by
an eye. It all just suddenly just something changed in the way the whole thing was
marketed and pushed and direction and also the pricing of upgrades and all that kind
of thing. And it all went. I think the technical phrase is a bit tits up. And it
just it just start everything changed and it suddenly felt wrong. And it's like the
thing is about, for example,
ozone and our ex is the fact that the upgrades were always reasonable. They were
always worth doing because they were always worth, you know, kind of. And then they
suddenly just the you're looking at the upgrades going, hang on a minute. All of a
sudden, you're not you're not taking into account that I've been a user. I've got
all the versions leading up to this. And you're now telling me that the price I've
now got to pay from here to here is what and what exactly do I get? Where there was
none of that before it was all it all seemed quite fair. And then once it was bought
up by an eye, all the upgrades suddenly took it. And also the fact that everything
is suddenly integrated into the thing. And I was getting multiple. You're getting
multiple emails from everybody from plug in Alliance from ozone from and I all
saying the same thing. And sometimes even offering you different upgrade grade paths
and all this kind of thing. And you're thinking all of that just needs to be either
just split off again, you know, kind of ozone isotope needs to very much not be part
of an eye in this in this bio and plug in Alliance needs to not be part of an eye.
And I is one thing, isotope is another thing. And plug in Alliance is another thing
and just keep them separate, keep them their own merry little go in their own merry
little way so that you people users like me that use all of them, don't get
bombarded with this completely conflicting information, and also go back to making
upgrades actually fair and decent rather than trying to prep money off.
Nick: But I think I think this I think this is probably the difference, isn't it? Because
I mean, ultimately, when you're, when you're funded by VC, there's no kind of real,
there's no real general sort of generally a feel for the creative industry, it's
that you return on investment. And once you've once you've taken the money, you
don't really you don't get to steer the ship anymore. And that's what you know, the
people want the return on their investment is because I've I've I've spoken to many
people about this, it's actually getting money, VC money into creative industry. And
so the real thing about the industry is, is not as hard as it was probably harder
than it used to be, but it used to be the sort of the cool thing to do. So it's easy
and easy sell, but a terrible deal at the other end of it. So you can get the money,
but then all sorts of bad stuff happens because they just don't get it. And I'm
guessing that probably the end of it, you know, maybe maybe the people isotope
decided they wanted to exit strategy and it's like, okay, we're done. Maybe they
thought AI is coming. Some of these tools, some of this noise reduction stuff is
becoming less exclusive to the industry. It was less exclusive to us, you know, I
don't know what.
Amanda: Well, a big big thing about it was the timing, right? So you have to remember when
the sale happened was the height of pandemic. And so that was when plug in sales and
music equipment sales went through the roof. So valuations for every music company
was sky high, so it was It was a great time if you're going to sell to sell to a VC
folks who don't understand what the actual baseline for music products industry is.
What we've had to endure the last few years is the hangover effect. They did a
leveraged buyout. They did 10X the debt over what the yearly revenue was for those
companies. There was no way. That's why the upgrade, the pricing, they were just
trying to get as much money as they could, but they were never going to be able to
make as much as they could that they bought it for. There was just no, the math
wasn't there.
This was an inevitability from when that deal happened. Now we're in a place where
it's back in the music products industry. We have a few years of baseline knowing
what the actual revenue stream is, if everyone's not staying at home making music.
There is a really, to your point, a really great opportunity to have products being
made, products being sold, a right-sized team,
and making money again. Because they're good products and the industry needs them
and in music saw that. I think there's reasons to be optimistic moving forward.
Nick: Yeah. Well, that's a great point for me to insert a crass advert in here.
Ty: Nick, can I just say, what are you doing two weeks in a row bringing in people who
really, really, really know their shit and know what they're talking about? What are
you doing? I'm not used to this.
Nick: It's a new thing.
Ty: I know this is a new thing you're trying out.
Nick: Well,
back to me who doesn't know what they're doing. I'm going to bring an ad from our
friends. We'll be back shortly after this. Right.
Yeah, I think I know this is sort of outside of our usual fare, but we often don't
have people with such specific and core interests in such a specific topic. I mean,
obviously there's more to life than just these particular things.
I think so. It feels like what we're thinking is it's probably a good it's probably
one of the better outcomes. I really like the idea because one of the things that I
find so just tasteful about VC is they've I think they've figured out how to they
they monetize the buy, extract the value and then monetize the debt afterwards. So
you end up making money at both ends of it. And it's just a really horrible way of
because there's no product is there? It's just like here's a load of cash sitting
around and they got as much as they could. I mean, Jack O'Donnell is a pretty hard
nosed businessman. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have paid a decent price. There is no
record of what was paid. So, I mean, I would like to think that maybe some of those
VCs lost a bit of cash that they can't put into somewhere else, I guess. But I don't
know. Maybe you know more, man.
Amanda: Yeah, they I'm sure they they lost money in the deal. But yeah, it doesn't matter
for VC. But what it does matter is for the people who work there. Right. And so it's
it's because because the people who work at these companies care a lot. It's not
just a job for many of them. So it's like really hard to be in that environment. And
so I definitely give my hats off to the people who've been working under that
environment and hope that, you know, in music can can kind of level it and get in a
place where they they feel less of that pressure. They're they're out from under
that debt pressure now. And so that's that's really exciting, actually.
Nick: And I suppose the big thing also is we want to make sure that the people who maybe
were left holding holding on to a debt from, you know, the last Black Friday sale
that hadn't gone through the royalty systems for their small sample company are
going to get paid. I mean, that's a really big and important thing.
Amanda: It's a big one. It's a big one. Like, like the folks, you know, there are plugging
companies that plug in Alliance is a big part of their their revenue stream. And so
they were up in the air. It's like, I don't know if I'm even going to be able to
sell my plug ins in three months. Right. And so now it's like, OK,
we have we have the system. You know, there's still a lot of unknowns. But but yeah,
things are things are better now than they were when they were kind of kind of up in
the air for sure.
Nick: And I suppose, you know,
to leave it on a more positive note, it feels like, you know, the trajectory is a
positive one. And so I mean, I guess, you must get like, hey, new library out of
you. Has that stopped happening or are you still getting kind of notification?
Ty: No, I mean, I have to say it has slowed down in the last few months. It has it has
slowed down slightly.
I tell you, I'm noticing there's loads more libraries that have been not developed
for contact. There's suddenly been developed for sandbox, the audio thing. Is it
audio thing? I think it is audio thing.
Yeah, a lot more libraries being developed.
Well, I don't think it's ported over. It's just libraries that you know naturally
would have gone on to contact and now going on to sandbox. The sandbox is great. I
mean, it's a free it's a free player. But I mean, it's got a fraction of the amount
of capabilities that that contacts got. But no, I mean, the contact libraries are
still coming. But they see what you also understand, have to understand is contact.
There's a lot of companies that develop their own players.
They claim a lot of it is because of they want to develop things differently and
whatever. But the reality of the situation is they develop it because if you're
going to develop a library for contact player, you have to pay them a license fee.
And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the figure. But it's not cheap. And so
there are people like kind of Spitfire and
sound paint that you were to work with. People are developing their own players. And
I'm sure some of it is because they want to do specific things. But I think most of
it is just because they don't want to be paying the licenses to contact. I
appreciate that and understand that. So there's a lot of libraries coming out.
But yeah, and contacts still still contact still the main one at the end of the day.
And it's still the best one, I'm sorry to say, because I've got all the other ones
and they're all great and they all have their own place and do their own thing. But
contact is still is still the best one for me anyway. So yeah.
Nick: Yeah. OK, well, so so we've done we've done native instruments. I'm just thinking
we're going to the other thing that we're going to talk about, which I think is
interesting. Maybe we'll have a slight amuse-bouche just because this is this. We'll
throw this one in here and then we'll come back to our next one so that we're not on
to back to back heavies. So this one's really interesting. This is the new Oak Sound
sooth 3, which as far as I can
Speaker 2: tell, it's with great pleasure. And after a ton of research and development that
we're releasing soothe 3. This video is meant for those who are already familiar
with soothe 2. We're going to go over what's new and what's changed in this new
generation of soothe. You can also check out our I
Nick: won't play it. Or there's a load of really good little short videos out there at the
moment, which is like this is what basically a crappy sounding acoustic guitar can
sound like. And here's the boxiness and here's what soothe does with it and just
removes everything and makes it all lovely. And it's not cheap. I mean, it's two
hundred and fifty nine bucks. I mean, it's a premium plug in, but it's one of those
ones that seems to have to be everywhere. Whenever I see people talk about it
everywhere, because it's great for just sort of taking fairly crappy sound sources
and smoothing them out, even the making them easier to mix. You could use it live as
well for suppressing resonant frequencies and stuff. I don't know, Tyze, it's
something that you've come across. I mean, I guess most of your stuff is going to be
pre processed if it's in sample libraries. It's already sounding nice. So it maybe
doesn't need as much of that sort of work. But I'm not sure this is something you
are familiar with.
Ty: Well, I'm going to say that Midge's album would not existed without soothe,
basically.
Well, I wouldn't. I mean, it's it's I've been there again since day one with soothe
and then soothe two and now soothe three.
I can't even I can't recommend it highly enough. It's you know, you know, sometimes
when you see these bits of software and they show the before and after and the
bypass and then you actually get it and you're there going, really? This isn't quite
as it was on the demos. This is the opposite of that. Everything, all the magic
stuff that it does on the demos,
it does in the studio for you. It's just it's all so many issues and so many
problems. And yeah, well, when I was doing the album, it was it was I lost a number
of track how many had soothe on just to mainly to do with vocals and guitars and
bass and a few bits of drums, whatever. It's just but it's also it's not just a
problem solver. You can do creative, amazing creative things with it as well.
Yeah, because it's basically got soft and hard and especially on the new one, soothe
three, the soft mode is basically they they've redeveloped it. So it's really
transparent and basically does this really fantastic kind of combination between
compression and dynamic EQ. And and it's it's really does it really transparently,
but does the job. And then you put it into the hard setting and it can completely
change the sound and all the all the artifacts that if you're trying to do
transparently, you don't want from a sound creative point of view, you can get some
really fantastic kind of pumping and sidechaining kind of effects. And yeah, soothe
cannot recommend it highly enough. Absolutely fantastic.
Nick: I think they seem to be one of the sort of software superstar successes.
Ty: Oh, I mean, again, spiff. They do spiff as well. They do spiff as well by sounds and
all of that. All of their plugins are just fantastic.
Nick: Yeah, I think you can run it in real time across inputs as well. Is it something
you've come across? I mean, I guess working in, you know, the industry that you are,
you will be aware of this. People must be referring to it
Amanda: 100 percent. Like soothe is definitely known as one of those plugins like, oh, yeah,
it's a lot, but it makes everything sound really good. Right. So people people use
it a lot. It definitely comes across. And it's a really interesting way of solving
problems, right, instead of this kind of surgical. You're you're dialing in using
your ears like this is kind of it's a bit of an intelligent helper. Right. It kind
of just smooths it out. So it's like those those big changes you still do. But it's
it's kind of like that final polish, you know. And I think I think this one has a
new low latency mode.
Nick: So yeah, that one makes it better for almost almost zero milliseconds. I'm like, oh,
wow, possible. Yeah, yeah, that's quite low. I'd say that's low latency. That's a
little low.
Amanda: It's a little low. Yeah, exactly. So so so, yeah, I mean, it's been primarily a
mixing tool, but but now kind of opens it up to be more of like a live performance
and tracking tool, which is phenomenal.
Nick: I think I've seen it running to be able to run on the big digital design live desks.
I think that's where where that was formerly TDM, whatever the whatever that is
these days, I don't even know. Hey, hey, hey, X is it. I don't know. Yeah, I don't
even know what it is.
So many. Yeah, that stuff. But yeah, that's going to be really handy. Anyway, just
throw that in there.
I thought it was. But also, I mean, guessing a lot of what's happening here is
machine learning and that stuff, which people I mean, they don't bang on about it
being AI, which I think is kind of pretty positive because there might be some that
they would, you know, the algorithmic and machine learning, which I think is
probably more true of a lot of what is masquerading as AI than we would expect.
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, the term AI has gotten pretty toxic. And it's been around longer than
people think, like a lot of the isotope, our ex stuff, you know, they have a
assistance or machine learning. You know, it's been in for over a decade and it's
been something that's been supporting musicians, you know, so but that's gotten a
little more controversial these days.
Nick: It has was interesting when that does sort of take us to another topic, which I
wanted to put those in between, but this kind of links up pretty nicely, I guess. So
what we'll probably do is I'll run a bit of this that I've also got another ad to
get in there, but I'm aware of this sort of stuff can go on. So this was just
acceptable uses of AI. This was actually here we go. This is time of music where you
use your voice. It's a library. It finds sounds.
Amanda: Oh,
yeah,
that one's really cool. It's like you're yeah, Tambor just launched this month.
Right. There there's there's been finally some movement in the direction of
assistive things that are helping workflows. And so that example was Tambor's
librarian. They have a voice activation where you can actually at least from the
demo from percussive sounds, give a percussive sounds and then it searches your
library for samples that that that match that.
So so, yeah, I'm I'm really excited with some of the things that are coming out.
Tambor has that's a creative suite that also has samples, some some a generative
samples as well.
Sample library they made and the librarian as well as voice assisted in orbit audio
is another one that's like in the beta stages, right? There they're doing sign up
for early access and they're really looking to solve the problem of your creative
workflow, like putting music, putting a layer on your computer that read your sample
libraries, regardless of what program you're using and just starting to take take
note of your creative workflows and how it can can help. It also has voice
activated. Hey, I'm looking for like a distorted, you know, kick drum here and it
gives you those samples and find similar ones. So so, yeah, I'm I'm pretty excited
about this because as you could see, I'm like already jumping into it. The the
conversation has been overtaken by generative, right? Generative music and a lot of
companies that I frankly call them tech music companies, not music tech companies.
These are people who have scientists who have developed generative, a generative
music and then look for a problem to solve. Right. They're like, how can we sell
this? Right. And I'm really interested. I really think we need more music makers
making music products that are solving actual workflow solutions for people. So
that's like my whole soapbox. Right.
So so, you know, I think like in orbit, Tambor Roax is a great one that does
similar to isotope, but but more automated mixing
and mastering, which is really, really great, as well as as file leaders. It's more
utilitarian and that one's more.
Nick: Yeah, that was interesting. Yeah, the file is where you can just. But I mean, I
don't know, you have to deliverables. I imagine the cues and then the submixes and
the kind of like, do you have to do? Do you have to deliver all of that stuff? I
mean, I'm guessing. I mean, let's let's be one thing that's very clear is where this
is not about maybe giving generative AI. Any kind of platform, I don't think any of
us any of us are interested in that. And I don't think our audience are either. But
my umbrella topic was was kind of OK, it's a technology that we can use. What what
uses would it be useful for, I suppose, if you were to use that sort of stuff?
Because we probably all are anyway, to a degree, without even knowing it, whether
it's in searches or whatever. And I was just saying, so deliverables. I mean,
finally, it seems I mean, I
Ty: think that would be a fantastic use of it if you if you could in terms of stems and
yet just deliverables, if you could just literally turn around and give it a project
and without having to do all the sorting out all of the.
The dirty work that takes forever, just when you when you're working on a cue,
because the reality is when you're working on a cue, you'd be and you're doing it
really quickly. The last thing you'll want to do when you're working on pieces of
music very quickly is sit there going, now I must group them together so that when I
come to produce the stems in next week, I, you know, kind of they're all together
and they're all collected on the same folder. When you're working quickly, that's
the last thing you're thinking about. If there was somewhere, someone some way that
I could do that with you all the way, that would be fun. That would be really
helpful in terms of the sample searching thing. I've bought it, but I've never used
it. Is it is it called XO? The by who the excellent audio. Yeah, the audio. So so I
mean, I bought that because I saw a demo of that. Oh, my God, that looks really
useful.
I installed it and I've never used it. But again, that that if it could do that kind
of thing, but in a more kind of
accurate way, that would be fun.
Amanda: Why haven't you used it? Why haven't you used it?
Ty: Because I don't I don't have time to fart. Never mind. Leaving things to analyze my
hard drives of which are just ridiculous.
But yeah, that's that's all it is. I kind of I love the idea of it, but I genuinely
just haven't had time to. And I bought it ages ago. And if I'm honest, I bought ages
ago, had all the best intentions and then just forgot about it. And it's only whilst
talking about this. Because as as Nick said, I mean, everyone knows anyone that
cares.
My views on AI generally as an umbrella are it is shite. I never want to have
anything to do that. It should be shot at birth.
That's very much how I see. I actually had the conversation with someone today.
Basically, we were talking about tech and about AI and about deep fake stuff in
terms of within money and general people, you know, being scammed and all this kind
of thing. And honestly, if I had my way and I do really mean this, if there was a
way that you could box up all the AI in the world and go, do you know what, we tried
it and it hasn't gone so well. We'll just put it all back in the box and we're going
bury it somewhere and then cover it with, you know, kind of 300 feet of concrete.
That's how I would do with AI, because I understand its benefits in terms of
medicine. Fantastic. But in so many other areas, it's like everything in this world,
it will be misused. And sometimes it's for scamming and for doing bad and criminal
activity. And in my case, the way that AI is used at the moment, generally speaking,
and is really, really encouraged, is all about generative, because apparently
musicians, we don't as musicians, we don't enjoy, remember, do you remember this
statement? 100%. We don't enjoy making music. At the same time, if we can just put
generative stuff to one which I think is literally the work of the devil, if I can
in some way incorporate it, that's going to make my life easier in a just speed
things up kind of way. And it means that if I could turn around and go, just say, I
want a baseline that is, you know, kind of resonant filter, you know, kind of band
pass, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it gives me some suggestions. That's fine. It's
not doing anything for me. All it's doing exactly what I would do, except rather
than me taking half an hour to find the right sense and with the right settings and
then work on it. It's basically doing it for me.
That I can even that I can just about cope with that. And it really is in my head,
because the other half of my brain is going, hang on a minute, I've learned to do
this since I was 14 years old on my first and I've learned synthesis, I've learned
all of this. And there is a bit of me begrudgingly going, I've spent 30 odd years
learning this and now I can just turn around and speak to it and it'll do it for me.
Amanda: And there's a bit of me going. I know it's like learning how to beat match on vinyl
and now there's a sync button. You're just like, why? Why did you do this to me? But
at the end of the day, it's like that's technology for you. It's like we used to
ride horses and no one knows how to ride a horse anymore. Right. Yeah.
And so it's like, you know, but to your point, I feel like the conversation has been
owned so far by folks who aren't musicians and the party tricks.
Nick: And so it's like party
Amanda: tricks to raise funds for VC folks who also don't know anything about the industry.
And so and there's some really great folks who at some of those bigger companies
that are developing really great things for musicians, but it's really hard to
bubble up those product ideas when the people at the top maybe don't see, you know,
you right now, I think we're at a point in technology, in music technology, where
you really need to have people with a point of view, right? People who are making
products with a point of view who have had to tear their hair out for a particular
problem at 2am and be like, why hasn't someone solved this, right? Co-creating those
products with people who know how to make music products and have done it for a long
time, right? And funding those kind of companies, right? Those grassroots companies,
they're not as shiny and party trick is, hey, we just made a whole song for you. But
this is these are the kind of technologies that are be helpful and useful day to
day, day in and day out. And people will can't live without them. Right. And so
that's, that's the stuff I'm. So excited about.
Nick: I agree. I think the problem is because of the level of investment that's gone into
the sort of general AI rather than specialized, which would be, you know,
specialized would be audio and light.
Amanda: Need specialized. Yeah, totally.
Nick: Whatever is the amount of money it costs to fund to run the computers to access
those models. It makes a niche product like this sort of almost unattainable. You
know, it's actually cheaper to have a human do it really. Good point. Because it
would cost. So I think that's where where things are, where things are changing. I
think where things are going to change and they're going to change pretty rapidly
is, you know, we've been certainly in the States and in other other nations have
been sort of running headlong into massive data centers and these huge points of
failure and power and everything. Whereas we've all got extremely powerful computers
at our, you know, many of us have very powerful computers at our fingertips that
could be used for local stuff. And then that's where the key is. And also, I mean,
it's like what you're describing, Ty, is we need, there needs to be something that
kind of is interfacing with the door at a level that understands your way of
working. So you would describe it as, you know, if you just said, look, all I've got
time for is to color the tracks for base blue and the other things like this. And so
if you just, can you just do that? So just take that input and do this with it,
please. Yeah, that would be enough. But the mundanity. Yeah, yeah. But ultimately,
you still need to have it give it some kind of structure because it cannot be in
your head. You can't look at it and go, you know, that's a base sound, I think. And
it's like, no, it's not. It's it's not.
Ty: The thing is, it wouldn't be difficult to do that, because all you have to do is
give it some past work you've done without that level and turn around and go, OK,
analyze this. This is how my head works. This is how I color my tracks. And it would
take nothing to learn that because there would be continuity because we will. I do.
I tend to go for the same colors, you know, kind of from
Nick: a template, presumably as well.
Ty: Absolutely that because we've had this conversation before. Everything that I ever
do starts from a template. So all it needs to do is analyze the templates and it
will see the common themes and it will know what to do that that I absolutely that
would that kind of stuff. Yes, that would be great.
Amanda: I can't imagine if you're like having you're doing your session and it's recording
your session, your how you do your session and then it just knows how you do your
session. Yeah.
Ty: Yeah. I mean, that that kind of stuff is is is fine. It's just trying to very much
separate that from things like Suno and trash like that. You know, kind of, you
Nick: know, that's I suppose that they're the kind of they're the shiny objects that get
people talking about it that raise the funding. I think part of the problem is is at
the moment we're in a really bad situation where money is made from products that
don't exist yet. And then all this fun. Just kind of is the bubble. The bubble in
the US is is absolutely terrifying. It's really, really interesting. There's a
really interesting analogy. I listen to a couple of different podcasts. One of them
was just about the way that China is doing similar things in terms of, you know,
massive AI. But the way that they do it is very different to the way that states
like the US do it. One of the US does it in capitalism is in a litigious form. So
it's it's restrained and it's kept kept in check by rules which tend to favor the
people who are not who have got more money. Whereas in China, they just go have at
it, help yourselves. It's all free. And then they help the top ones. So it's just a
different it's a different approach. And it seems to me that I think one might be
better than the other for some reason.
Ty: The biggest problem I have more than anything else with with things like Suno,
because that's the one that I know that I've encountered from other people.
Point me in the direction of it for different reasons. It's more to do. I think it's
actually a social thing because it's more to do with the fact that you just read so
much of these people that are I'm going to use this in vertical as writing songs or
producing tracks on sooner. You're not don't be an idiot. Anyway, whatever you're
doing on Suno, they they honestly think they sincerely think that they're producing
music. They sincerely think that they're writing this and no matter how much you
want to turn to go. No, you're not. You are not doing anything. You're putting in
some text and giving it some reference points to then go and rip off the people that
have done it in the because through learning and legal learning because this music
should never been able to be ripped off in the way that you're ripping off. That's
all you're doing. That's and then you're that's that's that's another whole point
that this music should not be accessible. And eventually this legally, this is all
going to go completely ballistic. And someone is going to win a case where their
music can't be nicked. And then the floodgates are open. And then this entire thing,
Suno will go back up its own ass and it will not be soon enough. And everyone that
writes with Suno and honestly believes that they're writing music or writing tracks.
You are delusional. You are. Well, let's you. You are money.
Amanda: Let me let me push back on that a little bit. Right. Oh,
no. Oh, no.
Gloves are off. All this sweet California girls just ruining your day. OK, so.
No. So 100 percent correct. They have ripped off the entire catalog of human music
to make these tools and legally and all of this is a quagmire. It's a nightmare and
it's already wreaking havoc on your job. Lots of jobs and all that. So I'm putting
that whole bundle of I agree with you to the side. Right now. And and there are we
are now seeing a new persona, a new group of type of music makers who don't know
what it means to make music. Right. These are people I kind of see them like DJs,
right? Like DJs, curators, right, who are curating music and making things, but but
not at the granularity and the level. But I think this could be an amazing step
stepping stone to make more music makers. Right. Because that work from being coming
a DJ and a music curator to a music writer, that step is huge. I've taken that step
and it is very hard. So we now have this intermediate step of that. And then now we
have generating stems. Right. You can do generative stems. And so then you can
generate some stems. Oh, and then maybe I can practice making my own drum beat or I
can practice a piano or I can sing into it. And so the studio is kind of like a
gateway drug to being able to break apart those stems. And once you start
understanding music and then starting real music makers will use this as a stepping
stone to actually become real music makers.
Ty: Right. Real music makers would bypass this completely. That's the bottom line. Real
music.
Nick: Well, only if they already know. I know. It's 12 years old.
Amanda: If they're 12 years old. Absolutely.
Ty: I started playing piano. I was eight years old. I've got friends whose kids are
five, six, seven years of learning music. Real music. Real music.
Amanda: But they're not drummers. They're not bass players, right? My daughter's a drummer.
Right. No, I'm saying, but like a piano player, you're starting playing piano,
you're not going to necessarily be a drummer right off the bat too. So you're going
to maybe generate some drums to go on.
Ty: You learn the same way that I learned to drum the same way I learned to play guitar.
And I learned to play saxophone. And the same way that real music makers learn to
play instruments.
Nick: No,
I think there's some value to both of those arguments, but I'm going to have to
interject because I have an advert to play, but I've got to come back to you later
as well. Be back after this.
Right. I wanted to come back at the time because just purely, interestingly, Mark
Tinley, who's been a regular guest on this show,
he's had lots of life shit that he's had to deal with. He's been a musician for
years and years and years. He's written lots and lots and he's been posting pieces
of music that he has
had in the back pocket for a long time. So he's had sort of songs that he's written
that hasn't finished arranging them. And he's been feeding them into things like
Suno Studio and using aspects of what it spits back at him from his own material to
reframe, rearrange and finish some of those arrangements. And I think, and he's sort
of said, I don't know how I should feel about this because I wouldn't have finished
this song. Now I've got this and I think it's quite good because it's my lyrics, my
melody, some of the other aspects are this sort of hybrid thing. So there is this
sort of gray area. I mean, I know, you know, that that's the I suppose that's
something that's kind of interesting. I wonder what you think about that in terms
of.
Ty: Look, I should just say I. So I've got a friend who was in a very long term marriage
and she very suddenly got taken Hill and unfortunately, three months in she passed
away. She used to write poetry and his way of dealing with the grief was he used to
put the poetry in to Suno. They used to they used to give the reference points of
all the music that they've loved over the years. And Suno used to produce these
tracks. Now he will be the first to admit that those pieces of music are amazing.
What came out the other end are truly incredible. They sound the vocals are
unbelievable. The string writing is unbelievable. Everything about it is fantastic.
But he he as a musician appreciates that this is it's not real music. It's basically
it is for him. It's therapy. And so that kind of use that kind of use. I appreciate
and the way that Mark, you know, kind of you're absolutely right. Mark's had to deal
with a whole load of crap in his life. And so that is as much therapy for him. I
would honestly say, I think it is the fact he's got these things finished. That kind
of usage, I have to sit here and go, that has its that has its use. That has its
value. That has its purpose. The reality is, I honestly think the the amount of
people citing people like my friend and like Mark are make such a small percentage
if people that and the thing is, my friend actually comes in admitting that before
his wife unfortunately died, she did actually turn around and go, whatever you do,
don't play any of this to tie because tie will go ballistic.
And knowing my view on all of this, but I what I'm saying is in those instances, as
everything in life, there are always exceptions. And there are always valued
exceptions. I all I know is that percentage would be so you then I because I've
looked at all the sooner sites, you look at the people who genuinely believe that
they are writing, you know, it's their music and they are geniuses. And you look at
them, and they're the ones you kind of go, no, it is not you are not go and learn to
play an instrument or go and do it the way that we've all had to do it. God, I sound
like an old man.
Nick: I mean, I am I am getting back to the fifties and rock and roll, you know, it just
sort of feels a little bit but there is a little but I know
Ty: even then, even then it still all came back to me. This is the thing it all came
back to if you travel back from from everything from 2000 backwards, before loops
before AI before all of this. Yes, music changed. And yes, every generation went all
that music's crappy, never it's not like it used to be. Every generation's done
that. But the reality is, it was all done on human beings learning instruments for
hundreds of years.
Amanda: And now it isn't from machines have no soul.
Remember that? Remember the bumper sticker? Of course. Machine have no soul.
Nick: That's a really I mean, but Amanda, you know, I was I was thinking, you know, I,
I started out in music because I could sample things and sampling. Yeah. Yeah. And
that helped me put together rhythm tracks that I couldn't possibly have played or
programmed.
And that's a stepping. So I'm using the machinery to kind of aid me. So I suppose
there's a thing. And I think your point is, I know you you've mentioned at least at
some point, the problem that we have is that the fact that it what the data it's
trained on, I wonder if there's room for this this notion of ethical training, where
you know that you're not it's not the combined body of work, it's just something
else or specially commissioned. I don't know. Is there a difference? I mean, oh,
Amanda: absolutely, absolutely. And there are ethically trained data sets out there. Tambour
has generative AI in their product. And it's all trained on sample libraries that
they built, right? So there are ways to do it.
But but yeah, it's still the
thing. Is it yours, right? And that and that's, that's always that's always the
tricky part. That we have to do out but there are there are 100% ethical ways to do
this. It's just wasn't the fast and easy way for these companies to do it. So and
they just did it. And that is one of the biggest sins of the 21st century.
100%. You know, but so getting back to the show title there, Amanda, it is the
biggest sin of the 21st century is stealing the entire conglomeration of human
thought and and and capitalizing on it. It's the worst thing ever.
And it'll give us great things and and terrible things and but assistive tools. So
here's here's my here's my wish list. Automation assistance, I would like help with
automation. I hate writing automation. I just don't like it, especially over
multiple tracks. And if there's some way that the computer can do that for me, I am
happy. I am I write electronic music, I DJ, I only have a couple hours a week in the
studio if that so automation, please, right? Vocal enhancers, not replacers, right?
There are a ton of vocal replacers out there right now. I can sing. I was in choir
for four years. I have a voice. It's not a great voice, but it's a voice. And I want
to use it, but I want it to sound like I want it to sound, you know. So if there's
ways to use AI tools to to enhance the voice, I mean, Melodyne and Auto-Tune, those
are those are great. I mean, we need a new Melodyne. Melodyne needs a new Melodyne.
There's there's great opportunities in there to to really shape your own vocal in a
way that could be a lot more elastic than I think it can be now. And then just like
mix coaches, like there's a lot of automagical mixers and mastering solutions, but
I'd love a coach. I'd love someone to just be like, hey, you know, why don't you try
playing with this at, you know, 20 dB or 2 dB and see if it sounds better, right?
Those sorts of things. I think we're really close to that. Just the audio analysis
thing. I think that's pretty close. Yeah. And yeah, the voice activation in the
studio, I think that's something we're already starting to see and could be really
helpful and could be also really frustrating. It's just like yelling at your intern
producer friend, right? So it's a double-edged sword there. So those are those are
that's my wish list, you know, so all of
Ty: those are totally, totally justifiable. But I tell you the way I kind of see this, I
kind of hope in a way, if I'm honest, I kind of see it. Do you remember,
oh God, 2000, whenever it was, when was the iPad invented? 2010? Would it be 2000?
Ish? Yeah. Ish. Okay. Do you remember how all of a sudden there was a move within
the world that everything was? How to be an app? Do you remember? I just remember,
you know, kind of, it's when like the Raven came out and all of a sudden you don't
need a mix and desk. You don't need a screen, the touch screen, everything was touch
screen. And same with cars, everything and cars, everything is touchscreen. And just
like the way it's gone with cars now, and just like the way it's gone in terms of
controllers, because for years, there was suddenly everything was touchscreen
controllers. Now, everyone wants it to go back to knobs. Everyone wants physical
controllers. Everyone wants to realize that touchscreen is not the be all and end
all that we thought it was going to be. And I honestly would love to believe, and
I'm probably totally delusional. I'd love to believe that a lot of the crap that
we're getting at the moment about everything is AI, every single thing is AI, skip
forward 15 years and everyone will turn around and go, God, have you seen this
thing? It's just, it's just a mixer. It's called a guitar. Yeah, exactly.
It's just a, it's just a mixer. You have to do everything yourself, you know.
Amanda: I have 100%. I 100% agree with you. The safest place to be right now is a live
performing musician.
Absolutely. 100%. Recorded music is going to be just a nightmare. But, but, but, you
know, working at a speaker company would be great right now, right? It's just like
people will always want
community, you know, community and playing music together.
There's going to be a virtual world where that's much more possible on the
electronic side of things. But on the acoustic side of things, I think there's, I
think we're going to see a great resurgence in art and musicality, because if
anybody can make a song, who's going to want to listen to a DJ? They don't even know
if they wrote the song or not. Right. So live performance is going to be where it's
at. So yeah, I 100% agree with you on that one.
Ty: That in itself is awesome.
Nick: Yeah. Well, we do need a resurgence of venues, certainly in the UK. And I've seen
it.
Amanda: Yeah, I yeah, 100%. I think yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, I think it's coming. It
might be a second, but, but I agree.
Nick: Yeah. Well, that'd be good. Hey, that feels like a positive note. It feels like a
good note to actually maybe consider drawing things to an end. It's been absolutely
amazing. I want to thank very much our chat, chatties for being in there, hanging in
there with us. I know it's not been the usual list of topics, but I think it's been
a fascinating discussion. I want to say thanks to Wagyu for the excellent work with
moderating. I haven't seen anybody banned or anything. So we obviously, maybe we
haven't done our job properly. Maybe, maybe, maybe we should have actually got
people a bit more.
Amanda: Oh, well, there he is.
Nick: Maybe I should go in the chat. I'll get banned.
If you were there, he'd probably ban you. Fantastic. I would.
No, Ty, thank you so much for joining us. It's great. And I mean, in a way, I hope
you do have more time as a result of your current situation, but I kind of want you
not, not to have lost the gig, you know, so I don't quite know how to, no, no, no,
no, please.
Ty: I very much do want to, seriously, in all seriousness, I very much do want to,
because the thought of going back onto it now is really not appealing. So I'm very
much resigned to the fact that, you know, kind of that's, that's fine. I'm good. So
I'm very, very good about it. Absolutely.
Nick: Maybe that's the thing that you should be using AI for, you see, it's like the gig
that you don't want.
Ty: Joking aside, I spoke to another composed friend who turned around and went, you
should have just got AI to do it. That's literally what you do. Get AI to do it.
It's the kind of music that they don't know what they want. It's absolute rubbish.
It's trash. What they're suggesting. I love it really well.
They do.
Nick: Anything that they tell you they want, you just put that in the prompt. So that's
what you said.
Amanda: The thing is, I might, you literally type it in. And so you'll see what you'll get.
Ty: The exact words I used were I'm really sorry, but I'm not willing to write the music
of an 18 year old that knows nothing about music written on a laptop in his bedroom.
And, you know, that's exactly why words, which I'm not. I'm not willing to do that.
So I'm good. Believe me, I'm very, very good. And I will enjoy the time. Well, the
time off doesn't exist because the deadline, the dub was tomorrow. So the dead is
gone.
Nick: I've done that. But there's that thing, isn't there? There's that thing that
happens. It happens with us. We got offered back in the day when I was doing
remixes, we got offered a brim full of Asher.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Nick: Wow. And we just couldn't we couldn't see it at all. We're just like, I'm just not
seeing it. And then Fatboy Slim did his thing and it's like, ah, okay. Yeah. Oh,
well.
Ty: Can I just can I just one thing which is not to do with anything, because I know we
need to go. But one of the subjects we were going to do was about, you know, the SD
card shortage, and you may well do this week or something. Let me just tell you one
very quick thing about that. So I've been I wanted to buy. So this is like not this
March, the March before so March 2025. There was an eight terabyte SSD internal that
I wanted to buy. At that time, it was 650 pounds. And I didn't buy it because I
thought, Oh, do you know what? No, no, no, I'll wait a bit. I was changing the
system. Skip forward to March this year, the exact same drive was 1300 pounds for
exactly the same drive. forward to today, I went and checked because obviously it's
one of the subjects. Today, it is 2300 and something pounds for exactly the same
drive that last March was, you know, kind of 600 ish.
Nick: Yeah.
Well, this was one of going to be one of the topics because this is one of the
things because all the AI data centers are eating all it's not necessarily eating
the SSDs that eating the manufacturing process, absolute capability for making those
wafers, which are the, you know, whatever they're going to be made into. They
probably would be SSDs at that size. This is another thing that we're having to deal
with because in a way, we're being forced to use cloud because that's where they're
the only people who've got any hard drive space. Yeah, we haven't got any because we
can't afford it. I don't know how computer manufacturers are. Do you know if I was
a, if I was a computer shop that sold, you know, hard drives cases, the only thing
they've got in stock, I'm told is cases these days and fans. Yeah. That's kind of
it. Yeah. It's kind of scary, isn't it? Anyway, so I wanted to live on a positive
note, but I can't.
Ty: And I'm really happy in the fact that I haven't had to buy it and I'm really happy
about it. Yeah.
Nick: Eventually you've saved even more money than you would have if you bought it.
Exactly. So that's, that's what I guess that's a positive smiley face. Amanda, it's
been lovely to have you. I guess you're at the beginning of your day over there in,
what did I say it was? You said it was, it's not Santa Cruz, California. Santa Cruz,
it is Santa Cruz, California. No doubt. I've got a big productive day ahead of you.
I hope you have a great week. Anything exciting coming up that we should watch out
for from you? Are you doing any gigs?
Amanda: Goodness. Yeah. I am playing a show in Santa Cruz on Thursday, June 4th. I'm
actually playing my melodic project, Nicene. So I'm really excited about that. I'm
going to play some original tunes and melodic techno. And yeah. So if you're in the
area, come on down to Cat Alley street.
Nick: Excellent. Lovely. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you everybody in
the chat. Thanks for hanging in there in this hot weather, wherever you are. And do
get, if you can get some personal air conditioning or put your feet in a bucket, I
think that can help too. Feet in a bucket. Because then it will drip all over your
technology and you'd be cooling your wrist.
Amanda: Thank you. And thank you so much, Nick, for having me. This has been so fun.
Nick: You're welcome. Cheers everybody. I will press the button to shift it and that will
end the show. See you later, everybody. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye.