1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,680
(Music)

2
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:18,342
Nick: Hello everybody, welcome to Sonic Talk, episode 894, recording today on 27th May, at

3
00:00:18,342 --> 00:00:23,937
the end of May, in fact. Gosh, yes, and you'll notice, I mean, a slightly different

4
00:00:23,937 --> 00:00:29,397
surroundings here. This is actually my house because it's that time of year where

5
00:00:29,397 --> 00:00:34,992
the office becomes, or the studio becomes uncoolable. And so I'm here sitting under

6
00:00:34,992 --> 00:00:40,587
my weak air conditioning. I've figured out, I could use, I've got a cuckoo style, I

7
00:00:40,587 --> 00:00:46,250
can kind of show you that, well, my view. So I've got a nice view of the back garden

8
00:00:46,250 --> 00:00:51,642
and trees and whatnot. So there I am. Welcome everybody. Well, before I get into

9
00:00:51,642 --> 00:00:56,833
the, I often have to say this at the start of the show, that this is not a UK

10
00:00:56,833 --> 00:01:02,495
weather podcast. We actually are here to talk about music technology and the whatnot

11
00:01:02,495 --> 00:01:08,023
and the like. And before we get into introducing our guests, I'll just do a bit of

12
00:01:08,023 --> 00:01:13,078
housekeeping. I just want to let you know, coming up, check out the current

13
00:01:13,078 --> 00:01:18,673
competition that's running. You can win an Ovation base station 2, Swiftie Edition,

14
00:01:18,673 --> 00:01:22,920
which is the sort of specially designed by the legendary urban.

15
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,880
Artist, I guess, Ian Swiftie Swift.

16
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,171
Episode 3 of Sonic Retrocast is up with Ravi Abbot. That's Paulie's show, host of

17
00:01:33,171 --> 00:01:38,204
the retro hour and pirate radio. So they have an interesting chat about 90s pirate

18
00:01:38,204 --> 00:01:42,992
radio, which was a really big thing in the UK. I don't know if it's translated

19
00:01:42,992 --> 00:01:48,147
across the world, but it was it was a sort of precursor or I guess just maybe around

20
00:01:48,147 --> 00:01:53,119
the same time as the rave scene, maybe a little bit later. We've got a Korg 7000,

21
00:01:53,119 --> 00:01:57,968
700 S, five minutes with coming up from Chris. That'll be going to members only

22
00:01:57,968 --> 00:01:58,520
tomorrow.

23
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,643
And there's a don't forget to check out the enjoy electronics to feel an elf. Elf.

24
00:02:04,643 --> 00:02:09,828
Elf. I think that's how you pronounce it. Video that mouse has done for us. If that

25
00:02:09,828 --> 00:02:15,075
mouse has got a video coming up live tonight, three Atlantices, a pulsar and a bunch

26
00:02:15,075 --> 00:02:20,198
of other stuff. Jam that is doing. If you want to check out his super stuff. Mass,

27
00:02:20,198 --> 00:02:25,258
mass, mass on YouTube about five thirty. So straight after the show, I'm not sure

28
00:02:25,258 --> 00:02:30,318
how long it's going to be, but he asked me to mention it. So I have few. There we

29
00:02:30,318 --> 00:02:35,503
go. Right. Before I get into the guest, I'll do the one last thing, which is play a

30
00:02:35,503 --> 00:02:40,563
plug for our Patreon and YouTube memberships, because I do encourage you to join.

31
00:02:40,563 --> 00:02:45,623
We've got a lot of stuff going up there at the moment. So here we go. Well, let's

32
00:02:45,623 --> 00:02:50,621
let's welcome Amanda, because Amanda, Amanda Whiting-Gestle, who some of you may

33
00:02:50,621 --> 00:02:55,744
know, I would say I probably know Amanda for a very long time. I think she was the

34
00:02:55,744 --> 00:03:00,929
first 20 years, 20 years, 20 years. Yeah. 20 years. The working at Roland, I think,

35
00:03:00,929 --> 00:03:03,240
was the first time we met you, right?

36
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,920
Amanda: Yeah, maybe at Roland and maybe even at Emadio. I was at Emadio and then Roland.

37
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:16,485
And yeah, so I've been in the music technology and pro audio industry my whole

38
00:03:16,485 --> 00:03:22,804
career doing marketing. So I've had a lot of fun showing off new synths, new

39
00:03:22,804 --> 00:03:24,800
keyboards, new products.

40
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:32,042
And always a highlight of that is the visit to Sonic State and seeing Nick and Annie

41
00:03:32,042 --> 00:03:35,920
at the shows. Yeah. Well, it's great to be on the show.

42
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:37,440
No, well,

43
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:39,840
you're welcome.

44
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,229
Nick: I've been sending myself, I've been sending invites out for ages and we finally

45
00:03:46,229 --> 00:03:50,672
managed to persuade Amanda to come on. Amanda is also doing her own. I guess you're

46
00:03:50,672 --> 00:03:52,920
independent marketing and PR and strategy.

47
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:58,473
Amanda: Yeah, so I'm doing an independent marketing consultancy. So I'm doing strategic

48
00:03:58,473 --> 00:04:04,166
marketing for music, tech and pro audio full stack. So yeah, so I do brand comms,

49
00:04:04,166 --> 00:04:09,789
but I also do full funnel audits of people's marketing and working with a lot of

50
00:04:09,789 --> 00:04:14,920
founders actually who are bringing products to market for the first time.

51
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,539
And, and yeah, I'm my, my, you know, I worked at Roland, Splice, Universal Audio,

52
00:04:21,539 --> 00:04:27,282
some big companies doing a lot of go to markets and product launches. And so now I'm

53
00:04:27,282 --> 00:04:32,889
trying to take that knowledge and bring it to people who are trying to bring their

54
00:04:32,889 --> 00:04:38,565
products to market, especially in this very interesting time we're living in. Yeah,

55
00:04:38,565 --> 00:04:44,240
a crime. It's fun. It's exciting. And I am, I am just super, super jazz to be here.

56
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,678
Nick: Nice. Well, I'm always a pleasure to have you. Well, this is the first time. So I'm

57
00:04:49,678 --> 00:04:54,169
a pleasure to have you. And I was also got Ty, Ty, I can't believe it. Ty, two weeks

58
00:04:54,169 --> 00:04:55,880
in a row. What's going on? Never

59
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,680
Ty: a pleasure to have me.

60
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,982
Yeah, what is going on? Two weeks in a row. I'm not on for forever. And then two

61
00:05:04,982 --> 00:05:09,722
weeks in a row. So, so don't worry. I won't trouble your door for a while now.

62
00:05:09,722 --> 00:05:11,120
Maybe, maybe Christmas.

63
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,920
Have you muted yourself again?

64
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,520
Nick: I have. I don't know what it is. I've got the heat.

65
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:26,077
I'm going to say it's the heat. Yeah. Ty, of course, media composer and always busy.

66
00:05:26,077 --> 00:05:32,162
Just, just, I just got the album out with Midjure. Yeah. How's that going? Is it on

67
00:05:32,162 --> 00:05:36,120
any charts? What sort of charts would it be on? I have

68
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:41,117
Ty: no idea. I have no idea. I once it's done, I literally have no idea. All I know is

69
00:05:41,117 --> 00:05:46,054
the general reviews have been fairly amazing. Actually, they've been really good.

70
00:05:46,054 --> 00:05:50,747
The general feeling about it is very positive. So that's good. It means I did

71
00:05:50,747 --> 00:05:55,866
something right for a change. So, so yes, so all good, all very good. Although right

72
00:05:55,866 --> 00:06:00,498
at this moment, I don't know. They said last week, I was working on some BBC

73
00:06:00,498 --> 00:06:05,251
documents. I don't quite know where I stand in that moment. Because having has

74
00:06:05,251 --> 00:06:10,310
having never walked from a project or been sacked from a project ever in my life. I

75
00:06:10,310 --> 00:06:15,002
don't quite know where I stand with it. This right at this moment, I may have

76
00:06:15,002 --> 00:06:19,939
walked, I may have been sacked. I may still be on it. I may still be on it. And I

77
00:06:19,939 --> 00:06:24,997
genuinely don't know. Oh, no, it's a good thing. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, it was

78
00:06:24,997 --> 00:06:29,995
basically because it was a particular project that wasn't going well. And, and you

79
00:06:29,995 --> 00:06:32,920
can only deal with idiots further up the ladder.

80
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,158
To a certain extent. And then eventually you have to kind of open your mouth and

81
00:06:38,158 --> 00:06:39,040
kind of push back.

82
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,420
And I opened my mouth and kind of push back. Honestly, some of the stairs I was

83
00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:49,034
getting were hilarious. I mean, at some pace, there's a when we see when I know they

84
00:06:49,034 --> 00:06:53,649
were hysterical. I mean, beyond, you know, it's like when you're dealing with people

85
00:06:53,649 --> 00:06:58,263
who know nothing about nothing, it was a bit like that anyway. So anyway, so I don't

86
00:06:58,263 --> 00:07:02,493
know where I stand, I could be on it. I could be sacked. I could have created

87
00:07:02,493 --> 00:07:07,108
prompts. I really don't have a clue. But I can all I can say is I feel great because

88
00:07:07,108 --> 00:07:11,722
of it. Because otherwise, I'd have had to kill myself for the last week. And I can't

89
00:07:11,722 --> 00:07:13,480
be and so I'm so happy about it.

90
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,803
Nick: Well, that's good. I mean, I guess in seeing that that's a good thing, right? I

91
00:07:17,803 --> 00:07:22,399
mean, I know it's very much good. Yeah, I've spoken to a couple of people like this.

92
00:07:22,399 --> 00:07:26,776
I mean, I guess you probably get this as well. I mean, based at your base in San

93
00:07:26,776 --> 00:07:29,840
Diego, right? But which is close enough to to Hollywood.

94
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:35,008
Amanda: It's close to Santa Cruz is Northern California, but I'm down there quite a bit. So

95
00:07:35,008 --> 00:07:35,880
it's all good.

96
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,708
Nick: Santa Cruz. Right. I'm sorry. That's why I was thinking, is it really that cold? But

97
00:07:39,708 --> 00:07:41,440
Santa Cruz is further north, isn't it?

98
00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,640
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, like project based stuff.

99
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,148
Nick: Yeah, it's interesting. I was talking to somebody not that long ago, and they said

100
00:07:50,148 --> 00:07:54,645
they were working on, I think it was an Apple TV thing. And it got to the point

101
00:07:54,645 --> 00:07:59,255
where they were having these meetings with everybody apart from the director, who

102
00:07:59,255 --> 00:08:03,809
had an opinion on what the music should be. And like, they're the musicians. And

103
00:08:03,809 --> 00:08:04,720
it's like, well,

104
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,387
didn't you hire me because you like what I do, not because you want me to do

105
00:08:09,387 --> 00:08:10,680
something that somebody else.

106
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,490
Ty: In this particular, in this particular instance, you know, kind of the, I can't

107
00:08:14,490 --> 00:08:18,492
really obviously go into too much detail, but the spoken I personally spoke to high

108
00:08:18,492 --> 00:08:22,446
upon high admitted that they didn't understand music and knew nothing about music.

109
00:08:22,446 --> 00:08:26,256
And they were really feeding back from the person who was higher than them, who

110
00:08:26,256 --> 00:08:29,680
admitted they knew nothing about music, and still trying to make music.

111
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:30,920
Amanda: Can you make it more sparkly, please?

112
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,312
Ty: Oh, no, that's fine. I can do sparkly. I can do sparkly. But yeah, I can't go into

113
00:08:36,312 --> 00:08:41,704
too much detail, because if I go to too much detail, it becomes very specific, and

114
00:08:41,704 --> 00:08:46,767
they will absolutely know who. But all I'm going to say is the reference, the

115
00:08:46,767 --> 00:08:51,830
artists and the tracks they were citing were just, it would just leave you in

116
00:08:51,830 --> 00:08:56,827
disbelief to the extent. And again, I can't say who, but when I spoke to the

117
00:08:56,827 --> 00:09:02,153
director, the director and I, almost every conversation after one of these, these

118
00:09:02,153 --> 00:09:07,216
things were cited, almost every conversation started with us both in complete

119
00:09:07,216 --> 00:09:12,608
silence, until one of us would go, okay, then that would be after about 20 seconds

120
00:09:12,608 --> 00:09:17,671
of silence, because neither of us could get their heads around what was being

121
00:09:17,671 --> 00:09:22,537
suggested. And it literally did get to the stage where I was going to have

122
00:09:22,537 --> 00:09:27,929
essentially six days of killing myself with no sleep, not knowing what I was going

123
00:09:27,929 --> 00:09:33,189
to do. Not knowing, not understanding what they wanted, and where they wanted or

124
00:09:33,189 --> 00:09:38,581
what they wanted, because it was so contrary. And it literally did just get staged

125
00:09:38,581 --> 00:09:44,038
with it going, no, no, no, I've done this. It's not worth the hassle, basically. So

126
00:09:44,038 --> 00:09:46,800
I feel great about it. So congratulations.

127
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,316
Nick: Thank you. I don't know if I've told this story before, but I once, I was once

128
00:09:52,316 --> 00:09:56,909
working in, I think it was a, I can't remember which one it was, one of the big New

129
00:09:56,909 --> 00:10:01,390
York Studios, Power Station, I think it was, and we were working with a, shall we

130
00:10:01,390 --> 00:10:05,872
say, a long in the tooth girl band who were, who the record company had seen that

131
00:10:05,872 --> 00:10:10,520
we'd had a bit of success with some urban type stuff in the UK and said, we want you

132
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,002
to apply this to revive the careers of these, these lovely individuals. They were

133
00:10:15,002 --> 00:10:19,595
really nice, but it was literally every day they'd come in and listen, you know, so

134
00:10:19,595 --> 00:10:24,243
we'd be working on stuff. They'd want them. We'd have to then stop at a certain time

135
00:10:24,243 --> 00:10:28,891
just to do a board mix so that then we could then play it to them so they could give

136
00:10:28,891 --> 00:10:33,483
us feedback. And after about three days of this, I mean, this is really early in my

137
00:10:33,483 --> 00:10:37,080
career when I wasn't used to dealing with this kind of situation.

138
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,462
And we got to the point where it's just, I just, I don't really know. So we got it.

139
00:10:43,462 --> 00:10:46,720
I got in the lift. And as we came, as we came down,

140
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,840
the guy in question came in and started going, and I said, look, honestly, we don't

141
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,919
have it. I don't understand what it is you want. Why don't you go upstairs and work

142
00:10:55,919 --> 00:10:59,851
with the guy and get what you want and then play us that because I just don't, I

143
00:10:59,851 --> 00:11:03,833
don't understand. Needless to say, it wasn't, wasn't a smash, but it was, we were

144
00:11:03,833 --> 00:11:07,765
retainers. That was my first experience of that. And it was quite as guys, I was

145
00:11:07,765 --> 00:11:11,844
only in my early twenties and I was sort of like, is this all right? It feels like,

146
00:11:11,844 --> 00:11:15,924
but I was so cross. And you just, you just think it's such a waste of time. Anyway,

147
00:11:15,924 --> 00:11:19,905
that's, I guess that's by the by, but this is all interesting inside information.

148
00:11:19,905 --> 00:11:23,936
You know, people, I don't think people often understand what happens, the creative

149
00:11:23,936 --> 00:11:27,770
interface, you know, and I suppose this could lead us on to a very interesting

150
00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:31,800
experience. It could lead us on to some aspects of what we're going to talk about.

151
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,448
Ty: But bear in mind, you know, I've been doing this for whatever it is 35 years and

152
00:11:36,448 --> 00:11:41,154
I've never, I've never ever got to this situation. I've never got to the state of

153
00:11:41,154 --> 00:11:45,859
I've never walked. And I've never, it's never ever got to the stage where it, you

154
00:11:45,859 --> 00:11:50,565
know, kind of the, it's just impossible. It was just impossible. That's basically

155
00:11:50,565 --> 00:11:55,445
it. And so in 35 years, I think I've done well, but I also think, to be fair, I also

156
00:11:55,445 --> 00:12:00,093
think back, you know, kind of 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I would have been more

157
00:12:00,093 --> 00:12:04,915
bothered about pleasing people and taking the money. And do you know what I mean? I

158
00:12:04,915 --> 00:12:09,795
think I would have had more patience then, but you kind of get to a point as you get

159
00:12:09,795 --> 00:12:13,920
older where you just go, this is not worth it. And that's where I'm at.

160
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,408
Nick: I mean, the show must go on, isn't it? That's sort of so much the thing, you know, I

161
00:12:18,408 --> 00:12:21,776
mean, and Andy, you're a DJ as well. So, I mean, you get that whole thing and there

162
00:12:21,776 --> 00:12:25,063
are, you know, you've got the deal, you've got the deadline. And I think, I mean,

163
00:12:25,063 --> 00:12:28,106
You do the thing and you just white knuckle it. Some of those deadlines are

164
00:12:28,106 --> 00:12:31,474
absolutely horrific and it's like literally, right, coming to the studio now, we'll

165
00:12:31,474 --> 00:12:34,720
finish it tonight. It's got to be in at 10 o'clock in the morning sort of thing.

166
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:40,744
Amanda: Yeah, you white knuckle it and then you just go and get it done and then you never

167
00:12:40,744 --> 00:12:41,920
call them again.

168
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:43,500
Absolutely.

169
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,560
Right. That's what I, that's how you get the paycheck and run.

170
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,028
Ty: Believe me, there are two people, there are two people on my list of this that it's

171
00:12:55,028 --> 00:12:59,038
just like people to never work with again. These two people are very much on that

172
00:12:59,038 --> 00:13:01,760
list. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to bring this today.

173
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:02,680
Nick: Well, that cheery note.

174
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:09,626
But I mean, one of the reasons that we have you two on again, that's certainly Tyne

175
00:13:09,626 --> 00:13:15,049
again and Amanda again is because we, we, we sort of spoke about the, the Native

176
00:13:15,049 --> 00:13:17,760
instrument situation. Obviously we know,

177
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,952
Native instruments went into liquidation or went into receivership or whatever the

178
00:13:23,952 --> 00:13:28,607
German equivalent is, I'm not entirely sure, you know, it's something along those

179
00:13:28,607 --> 00:13:33,204
lines. And then because they own isotope and they own, what was the other thing?

180
00:13:33,204 --> 00:13:37,743
Plug in the lines. Plug in the lines. That's right. It was kind of complex. And

181
00:13:37,743 --> 00:13:42,455
there was this sort of moment where people were thinking, gosh, what happens if it

182
00:13:42,455 --> 00:13:47,282
goes away? You know, what happens if the servers that, that, that, you know, say the

183
00:13:47,282 --> 00:13:51,707
licenses are valid for my entire orchestral library that I'm in the middle of

184
00:13:51,707 --> 00:13:56,361
scoring a film for or whatever go away? What, what then? And it sort of felt like

185
00:13:56,361 --> 00:14:01,073
almost inconceivable this concept of too big to fail was a sort of, I think with a

186
00:14:01,073 --> 00:14:02,280
pre approach to that.

187
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:07,368
Amanda: Yeah, definitely. And from a, from, from music standpoint, there's just so many

188
00:14:07,368 --> 00:14:12,715
tools that musicians and, you know, media composers and everyone use every day. And

189
00:14:12,715 --> 00:14:17,996
also, there's a whole ecosystem of indie developers and sample companies that rely

190
00:14:17,996 --> 00:14:22,956
on contact for their sample libraries that they sell independent plug in. And

191
00:14:22,956 --> 00:14:28,238
independent plugin developers that use plugin alliances, like a third party dealer

192
00:14:28,238 --> 00:14:32,360
for their plugins. So it was like on both sides of the equation,

193
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,683
really existential. It was quite a, quite a cloud at the NAMM show for sure. For a

194
00:14:38,683 --> 00:14:43,886
lot of people being like, wait, what's happening? Okay. So I need to go figure out

195
00:14:43,886 --> 00:14:49,152
what I'm going to do with my contact libraries that I'm selling. Right? So yeah, it

196
00:14:49,152 --> 00:14:51,880
was, it was, it was quite, quite the thing.

197
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,622
Nick: It's interesting, isn't it? I mean, I think, I think we, I mean, now we know,

198
00:14:57,622 --> 00:15:02,359
obviously in music have stepped up. There was one of the, I mean, we were riffing on

199
00:15:02,359 --> 00:15:07,096
this stuff in past discussions and in music seemed like one of the most obvious ways

200
00:15:07,096 --> 00:15:11,608
to go. But I know, Ty, I mean, I was thinking at one point, you know, it's like,

201
00:15:11,608 --> 00:15:16,063
okay, we need to get Zimmer, we need to get a few of these really big composers

202
00:15:16,063 --> 00:15:20,800
together, Danny Elfman, and just go buy the server that's got the licensing stuff on

203
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,481
it so that it doesn't go away, you know, need some sort of cool. And it was, it was

204
00:15:25,481 --> 00:15:27,680
so but now that's okay, right? I guess.

205
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,727
Ty: No, it is okay. I, I, the only reason I wasn't worried was for exactly the reason

206
00:15:32,727 --> 00:15:37,899
that you exactly what you've just said, because there are, we all know the one area

207
00:15:37,899 --> 00:15:42,759
of music that really does kind of make money, really is, is film, TV composer,

208
00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:47,743
that's one area that, you know, continues to pay royalties and continues to make

209
00:15:47,743 --> 00:15:52,915
money. And almost every, I mean, I was I would say everybody, but almost everyone I

210
00:15:52,915 --> 00:15:58,024
know that does this relies heavily on contact. I mean, the rest of the NI stuff is

211
00:15:58,024 --> 00:16:03,071
fantastic. And we all you know, we own the complete editions. And it's all great.

212
00:16:03,071 --> 00:16:08,118
But the one thing here that you have to kind of concentrate on really is contact.

213
00:16:08,118 --> 00:16:13,352
And we've all invested huge amounts of money on library. I've literally just looked,

214
00:16:13,352 --> 00:16:18,586
I've just opened up my NI, I think, a couple of years ago, and I was like, I'm going

215
00:16:18,586 --> 00:16:23,571
to do this. I opened up my NI thing. We all know that with contact, you have two

216
00:16:23,571 --> 00:16:28,057
areas, you have the player instruments, and then you have the non player

217
00:16:28,057 --> 00:16:33,104
instruments. So the non player instruments are basically anyone can release those

218
00:16:33,104 --> 00:16:38,151
for contact. And I've got, I don't even know how many thousands of libraries I've

219
00:16:38,151 --> 00:16:43,198
got in those, but thousands and thousands and thousands of libraries in that. But

220
00:16:43,198 --> 00:16:44,880
just in the contact player,

221
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,000
I've, which are the ones that are registered within NI. You have to have the cereals

222
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,597
to work. In other words, if they're so if those cereals disappear from their

223
00:16:55,597 --> 00:17:00,677
servers, we're screwed. I've got 979 libraries just in just in contact player. Okay.

224
00:17:00,677 --> 00:17:05,576
So you can imagine if they go, I would be screwed. The only good thing is because

225
00:17:05,576 --> 00:17:10,596
everybody that uses contact, everybody that does what I do, and is fortunate enough

226
00:17:10,596 --> 00:17:15,616
to make money out of it, the ones really high up who make huge amounts of money out

227
00:17:15,616 --> 00:17:20,576
of it. They they use contact as well. So there was always this belief for me, that

228
00:17:20,576 --> 00:17:25,172
it would never go under because the contact wouldn't even if n I disappeared

229
00:17:25,172 --> 00:17:30,192
somebody exactly as you say somebody with the money would step in and save contact,

230
00:17:30,192 --> 00:17:34,970
even if they couldn't save the rest of NI, they would save contact. So I always

231
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:39,930
thought contact was was fairly safe long term. The rest of it, I wasn't sure about

232
00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:44,708
in music. I mean, look, what they've they've done what they promised with Akai,

233
00:17:44,708 --> 00:17:49,304
they've done what they've done with the company. What they've done what they

234
00:17:49,304 --> 00:17:54,324
promised with move, they've, they've kept their word and not gone in and completely

235
00:17:54,324 --> 00:17:59,405
screwed everything up, which some people did because they didn't do a great job with

236
00:17:59,405 --> 00:18:04,001
a lysis, let's be honest. So, so so I mean, as someone to come in and buy, I

237
00:18:04,001 --> 00:18:08,840
honestly couldn't really think of anyone better to come in and do the job, to be

238
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,920
fair, as long as they keep their word of basically staying fairly hands off with it.

239
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,407
Amanda: Well, yeah, and you know, they already had some signal that there was already

240
00:18:19,407 --> 00:18:25,392
partnerships happening, right? Partnerships partnering, you know, native instruments

241
00:18:25,392 --> 00:18:31,164
and and Novation, I believe we're we're already the MKM, MPC integration already.

242
00:18:31,164 --> 00:18:31,520
Yeah,

243
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,272
exactly. So they already were in talks. So it was kind of like, okay, so in music

244
00:18:38,272 --> 00:18:43,880
seems like a very likely buyer. The big question that's floating around in my brain

245
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,284
is, you know, in music does a lot of amazing, great stuff with hardware, but how

246
00:18:49,284 --> 00:18:54,487
much have they done on the software side? So this is like a big challenge and

247
00:18:54,487 --> 00:18:59,824
opportunity in the for in music to integrate this software portfolio with their

248
00:18:59,824 --> 00:19:05,364
hardware portfolio. So it, it could be really great, right? It could really ground

249
00:19:05,364 --> 00:19:10,971
out the round out how they're, you know, the offerings they bring to market as well

250
00:19:10,971 --> 00:19:16,308
as just more integrations with software and hardware in general, right? The big

251
00:19:16,308 --> 00:19:21,713
thing really is, is, you know, isotopes, isotope products are very heavily used,

252
00:19:21,713 --> 00:19:27,253
right? And and developed, you know, native as well. And it's a matter of like, can

253
00:19:27,253 --> 00:19:32,860
in music keep those people on board who make those products, right? The developers,

254
00:19:32,860 --> 00:19:38,468
right? Because that's 20 years of of real deep software development. And so the the

255
00:19:38,468 --> 00:19:44,075
way it can be successful is they keep those people on board and keep developing and

256
00:19:44,075 --> 00:19:49,547
because because if they if they leave, they're not going to come back. And that's

257
00:19:49,547 --> 00:19:55,222
going to be the hard part to keep because software is more than just a more, more of

258
00:19:55,222 --> 00:20:00,830
an evolutionary product than hardware, right? And so you really need to keep it up.

259
00:20:00,830 --> 00:20:06,167
And and they had the hands off approach, then then maybe that'll maybe a little

260
00:20:06,167 --> 00:20:06,640
happen.

261
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,478
Nick: I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I should press this because this was actually what I was

262
00:20:11,478 --> 00:20:15,727
going to do, which was that's to mark the topic. Let's talk about native

263
00:20:15,727 --> 00:20:20,447
instruments. So it's marked now anyway, at least. But what I was saying that you

264
00:20:20,447 --> 00:20:25,226
know, that there's a quote from Jack O'Donnell, who is, it's interesting, because

265
00:20:25,226 --> 00:20:29,829
those who perhaps don't know, in music is, as far as I can gather is privately

266
00:20:29,829 --> 00:20:34,608
owned. And previously, isotope and the whole sound wide that began rebranded as a

267
00:20:34,608 --> 00:20:39,505
native instruments, because it seemed to be of cockat was, was more of a VC kind of

268
00:20:39,505 --> 00:20:44,403
funding type of thing. And we ended up in a situation where I feel I expect much of

269
00:20:44,403 --> 00:20:49,359
that sort of stripping out of the unnecessary things like development, which I don't

270
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:54,138
believe isn't necessary, but maybe some of the the edge cases of that has already

271
00:20:54,138 --> 00:20:58,918
happened. So maybe the good news could be it sort of works as an entire thing, it

272
00:20:58,918 --> 00:21:03,461
just goes bang straight in. And it's like, hey, we've got a sort of match fit

273
00:21:03,461 --> 00:21:08,063
streamlined development team with no dead wood in it. And we can just power on

274
00:21:08,063 --> 00:21:12,961
ahead. Which would be, which would be awesome. And Jack O'Donnell says, and there's

275
00:21:12,961 --> 00:21:17,681
a quote of the tools you rely on today will keep working. The tools we like, you

276
00:21:17,681 --> 00:21:22,519
will rely on tomorrow are being are actively being built. Which is, I mean, what a

277
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:27,299
great piece of marketing. I mean, that's like that. I think you'd have been proud

278
00:21:27,299 --> 00:21:32,196
and say better with that line. Yeah, it's true or not. I'm not sure. But that's the

279
00:21:32,196 --> 00:21:36,916
thing. I think one area that is interesting is the DJ side of things, obviously,

280
00:21:36,916 --> 00:21:41,637
tractor is a massive sort of DJ engine. So lots of people use that. Whereas they

281
00:21:41,637 --> 00:21:46,534
also own new Mark and Denon already. So there's this hardware, hardware, less of an

282
00:21:46,534 --> 00:21:51,431
issue. I mean, and I do their own hardware. So I'm guessing maybe the hardware will

283
00:21:51,431 --> 00:21:56,034
go away like machina and things like that. And then the other one will be less

284
00:21:56,034 --> 00:22:00,990
supported. And all of that stuff will come across to maybe be more working on the on

285
00:22:00,990 --> 00:22:02,760
the already existing hardware.

286
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,327
Amanda: Yeah, there's definitely redundancies there with the other NPC and the machina

287
00:22:08,327 --> 00:22:14,323
stuff. But yeah, there's dedicated users for both. So it'll be really interesting to

288
00:22:14,323 --> 00:22:20,247
see how that works. Because, yeah, she has like a good following as well. The thing

289
00:22:20,247 --> 00:22:26,242
that's so interesting, you know, I'm a DJ and like Pioneer is just they just got the

290
00:22:26,242 --> 00:22:32,095
hold on the DJ market with their hardware and the clubs and having the controllers

291
00:22:32,095 --> 00:22:38,019
that kind of like move up into the clubs. So, you know, this is with with a tractor

292
00:22:38,019 --> 00:22:43,943
coming into to end music. This is the first time it's like, all right, maybe we got

293
00:22:43,943 --> 00:22:49,652
enough on this side to really make something because because the the software on

294
00:22:49,652 --> 00:22:55,576
Pioneer side is their Achilles heel. So now with and they have instruments, tractor

295
00:22:55,576 --> 00:23:01,500
software is really great. So so there could be opportunities there. We'll just have

296
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:02,000
to see.

297
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:08,080
Nick: Yeah, be interesting. I guess I also did you get into machine of time. Sorry.

298
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,976
Ty: I stopped with machine. I got to machine. I got studio machine, a machinist, you do

299
00:23:12,976 --> 00:23:17,635
whichever one that was. And I went up to the I've kept upgrading it. But I went

300
00:23:17,635 --> 00:23:22,000
through a stage of using it. And then when it became the machine of three,

301
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,717
I just kind of I just yeah, it's like everything you kind of has a life and then you

302
00:23:27,717 --> 00:23:32,298
kind of get to a point where you kind of go, okay, I'm not really using this now as

303
00:23:32,298 --> 00:23:36,658
it should be used and you kind of have to at some point jump ship. So I kind of

304
00:23:36,658 --> 00:23:38,480
stopped at machine studio really.

305
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,995
What I had, you know what, since I did the last last setup, I haven't even

306
00:23:43,995 --> 00:23:48,588
reinstalled it in here. So that kind of should tell you everything. But same with

307
00:23:48,588 --> 00:23:53,237
push. I haven't even put my push back in either. So I kind of Yeah, I've just kind

308
00:23:53,237 --> 00:23:57,999
of stopped going down that route bit. I did. The one thing I did want to just say is

309
00:23:57,999 --> 00:24:02,535
I I always I found and I'm not saying this is why and I was struggling. But when

310
00:24:02,535 --> 00:24:05,880
they did the whole buy up of isotope and plugging Alliance.

311
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,566
I don't know what was going on there. I don't know whether that was just feeling a

312
00:24:12,566 --> 00:24:17,529
bit. I don't know whether we're getting too big for their boots. But I I use I I

313
00:24:17,529 --> 00:24:22,677
bought more or less everything that plugging Alliance did and and I still do. Do to

314
00:24:22,677 --> 00:24:24,600
be fair. And same with isotope.

315
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:32,461
And I've been isotope user since day one of ozone one. And I've literally been there

316
00:24:32,461 --> 00:24:38,143
all the way through it. And when they signed, you know, kind of in the built up by

317
00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:43,825
an eye. It all just suddenly just something changed in the way the whole thing was

318
00:24:43,825 --> 00:24:49,645
marketed and pushed and direction and also the pricing of upgrades and all that kind

319
00:24:49,645 --> 00:24:55,189
of thing. And it all went. I think the technical phrase is a bit tits up. And it

320
00:24:55,189 --> 00:25:00,940
just it just start everything changed and it suddenly felt wrong. And it's like the

321
00:25:00,940 --> 00:25:02,880
thing is about, for example,

322
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,836
ozone and our ex is the fact that the upgrades were always reasonable. They were

323
00:25:08,836 --> 00:25:13,604
always worth doing because they were always worth, you know, kind of. And then they

324
00:25:13,604 --> 00:25:18,314
suddenly just the you're looking at the upgrades going, hang on a minute. All of a

325
00:25:18,314 --> 00:25:22,968
sudden, you're not you're not taking into account that I've been a user. I've got

326
00:25:22,968 --> 00:25:27,678
all the versions leading up to this. And you're now telling me that the price I've

327
00:25:27,678 --> 00:25:32,446
now got to pay from here to here is what and what exactly do I get? Where there was

328
00:25:32,446 --> 00:25:37,272
none of that before it was all it all seemed quite fair. And then once it was bought

329
00:25:37,272 --> 00:25:41,982
up by an eye, all the upgrades suddenly took it. And also the fact that everything

330
00:25:41,982 --> 00:25:46,636
is suddenly integrated into the thing. And I was getting multiple. You're getting

331
00:25:46,636 --> 00:25:51,116
multiple emails from everybody from plug in Alliance from ozone from and I all

332
00:25:51,116 --> 00:25:55,942
saying the same thing. And sometimes even offering you different upgrade grade paths

333
00:25:55,942 --> 00:26:00,710
and all this kind of thing. And you're thinking all of that just needs to be either

334
00:26:00,710 --> 00:26:05,535
just split off again, you know, kind of ozone isotope needs to very much not be part

335
00:26:05,535 --> 00:26:10,246
of an eye in this in this bio and plug in Alliance needs to not be part of an eye.

336
00:26:10,246 --> 00:26:15,014
And I is one thing, isotope is another thing. And plug in Alliance is another thing

337
00:26:15,014 --> 00:26:19,782
and just keep them separate, keep them their own merry little go in their own merry

338
00:26:19,782 --> 00:26:24,091
little way so that you people users like me that use all of them, don't get

339
00:26:24,091 --> 00:26:28,801
bombarded with this completely conflicting information, and also go back to making

340
00:26:28,801 --> 00:26:32,880
upgrades actually fair and decent rather than trying to prep money off.

341
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,037
Nick: But I think I think this I think this is probably the difference, isn't it? Because

342
00:26:37,037 --> 00:26:41,193
I mean, ultimately, when you're, when you're funded by VC, there's no kind of real,

343
00:26:41,193 --> 00:26:45,200
there's no real general sort of generally a feel for the creative industry, it's

344
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,156
that you return on investment. And once you've once you've taken the money, you

345
00:26:49,156 --> 00:26:53,313
don't really you don't get to steer the ship anymore. And that's what you know, the

346
00:26:53,313 --> 00:26:57,470
people want the return on their investment is because I've I've I've spoken to many

347
00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:01,676
people about this, it's actually getting money, VC money into creative industry. And

348
00:27:01,676 --> 00:27:05,733
so the real thing about the industry is, is not as hard as it was probably harder

349
00:27:05,733 --> 00:27:09,940
than it used to be, but it used to be the sort of the cool thing to do. So it's easy

350
00:27:09,940 --> 00:27:14,147
and easy sell, but a terrible deal at the other end of it. So you can get the money,

351
00:27:14,147 --> 00:27:18,103
but then all sorts of bad stuff happens because they just don't get it. And I'm

352
00:27:18,103 --> 00:27:22,009
guessing that probably the end of it, you know, maybe maybe the people isotope

353
00:27:22,009 --> 00:27:26,016
decided they wanted to exit strategy and it's like, okay, we're done. Maybe they

354
00:27:26,016 --> 00:27:30,022
thought AI is coming. Some of these tools, some of this noise reduction stuff is

355
00:27:30,022 --> 00:27:34,079
becoming less exclusive to the industry. It was less exclusive to us, you know, I

356
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:34,880
don't know what.

357
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:40,347
Amanda: Well, a big big thing about it was the timing, right? So you have to remember when

358
00:27:40,347 --> 00:27:45,947
the sale happened was the height of pandemic. And so that was when plug in sales and

359
00:27:45,947 --> 00:27:51,413
music equipment sales went through the roof. So valuations for every music company

360
00:27:51,413 --> 00:27:56,947
was sky high, so it was It was a great time if you're going to sell to sell to a VC

361
00:27:56,947 --> 00:28:02,480
folks who don't understand what the actual baseline for music products industry is.

362
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,680
What we've had to endure the last few years is the hangover effect. They did a

363
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:13,147
leveraged buyout. They did 10X the debt over what the yearly revenue was for those

364
00:28:13,147 --> 00:28:18,480
companies. There was no way. That's why the upgrade, the pricing, they were just

365
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,947
trying to get as much money as they could, but they were never going to be able to

366
00:28:23,947 --> 00:28:29,213
make as much as they could that they bought it for. There was just no, the math

367
00:28:29,213 --> 00:28:30,080
wasn't there.

368
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:36,809
This was an inevitability from when that deal happened. Now we're in a place where

369
00:28:36,809 --> 00:28:42,191
it's back in the music products industry. We have a few years of baseline knowing

370
00:28:42,191 --> 00:28:47,640
what the actual revenue stream is, if everyone's not staying at home making music.

371
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:54,971
There is a really, to your point, a really great opportunity to have products being

372
00:28:54,971 --> 00:28:58,480
made, products being sold, a right-sized team,

373
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:05,267
and making money again. Because they're good products and the industry needs them

374
00:29:05,267 --> 00:29:10,560
and in music saw that. I think there's reasons to be optimistic moving forward.

375
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Nick: Yeah. Well, that's a great point for me to insert a crass advert in here.

376
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,064
Ty: Nick, can I just say, what are you doing two weeks in a row bringing in people who

377
00:29:20,064 --> 00:29:23,899
really, really, really know their shit and know what they're talking about? What are

378
00:29:23,899 --> 00:29:25,360
you doing? I'm not used to this.

379
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,680
Nick: It's a new thing.

380
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,840
Ty: I know this is a new thing you're trying out.

381
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:32,480
Nick: Well,

382
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,343
back to me who doesn't know what they're doing. I'm going to bring an ad from our

383
00:29:39,343 --> 00:29:42,720
friends. We'll be back shortly after this. Right.

384
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:50,416
Yeah, I think I know this is sort of outside of our usual fare, but we often don't

385
00:29:50,416 --> 00:29:56,262
have people with such specific and core interests in such a specific topic. I mean,

386
00:29:56,262 --> 00:30:00,840
obviously there's more to life than just these particular things.

387
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,608
I think so. It feels like what we're thinking is it's probably a good it's probably

388
00:30:06,608 --> 00:30:11,215
one of the better outcomes. I really like the idea because one of the things that I

389
00:30:11,215 --> 00:30:15,712
find so just tasteful about VC is they've I think they've figured out how to they

390
00:30:15,712 --> 00:30:20,264
they monetize the buy, extract the value and then monetize the debt afterwards. So

391
00:30:20,264 --> 00:30:24,816
you end up making money at both ends of it. And it's just a really horrible way of

392
00:30:24,816 --> 00:30:29,313
because there's no product is there? It's just like here's a load of cash sitting

393
00:30:29,313 --> 00:30:33,865
around and they got as much as they could. I mean, Jack O'Donnell is a pretty hard

394
00:30:33,865 --> 00:30:38,528
nosed businessman. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have paid a decent price. There is no

395
00:30:38,528 --> 00:30:43,136
record of what was paid. So, I mean, I would like to think that maybe some of those

396
00:30:43,136 --> 00:30:47,799
VCs lost a bit of cash that they can't put into somewhere else, I guess. But I don't

397
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:49,520
know. Maybe you know more, man.

398
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,805
Amanda: Yeah, they I'm sure they they lost money in the deal. But yeah, it doesn't matter

399
00:30:54,805 --> 00:31:00,286
for VC. But what it does matter is for the people who work there. Right. And so it's

400
00:31:00,286 --> 00:31:05,506
it's because because the people who work at these companies care a lot. It's not

401
00:31:05,506 --> 00:31:10,987
just a job for many of them. So it's like really hard to be in that environment. And

402
00:31:10,987 --> 00:31:16,011
so I definitely give my hats off to the people who've been working under that

403
00:31:16,011 --> 00:31:21,427
environment and hope that, you know, in music can can kind of level it and get in a

404
00:31:21,427 --> 00:31:26,647
place where they they feel less of that pressure. They're they're out from under

405
00:31:26,647 --> 00:31:31,280
that debt pressure now. And so that's that's really exciting, actually.

406
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,057
Nick: And I suppose the big thing also is we want to make sure that the people who maybe

407
00:31:37,057 --> 00:31:41,619
were left holding holding on to a debt from, you know, the last Black Friday sale

408
00:31:41,619 --> 00:31:46,067
that hadn't gone through the royalty systems for their small sample company are

409
00:31:46,067 --> 00:31:49,840
going to get paid. I mean, that's a really big and important thing.

410
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,470
Amanda: It's a big one. It's a big one. Like, like the folks, you know, there are plugging

411
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:59,156
companies that plug in Alliance is a big part of their their revenue stream. And so

412
00:31:59,156 --> 00:32:03,673
they were up in the air. It's like, I don't know if I'm even going to be able to

413
00:32:03,673 --> 00:32:07,400
sell my plug ins in three months. Right. And so now it's like, OK,

414
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,311
we have we have the system. You know, there's still a lot of unknowns. But but yeah,

415
00:32:13,311 --> 00:32:18,142
things are things are better now than they were when they were kind of kind of up in

416
00:32:18,142 --> 00:32:19,120
the air for sure.

417
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,280
Nick: And I suppose, you know,

418
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,646
to leave it on a more positive note, it feels like, you know, the trajectory is a

419
00:32:27,646 --> 00:32:32,787
positive one. And so I mean, I guess, you must get like, hey, new library out of

420
00:32:32,787 --> 00:32:37,800
you. Has that stopped happening or are you still getting kind of notification?

421
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,290
Ty: No, I mean, I have to say it has slowed down in the last few months. It has it has

422
00:32:42,290 --> 00:32:43,440
slowed down slightly.

423
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,450
I tell you, I'm noticing there's loads more libraries that have been not developed

424
00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:53,558
for contact. There's suddenly been developed for sandbox, the audio thing. Is it

425
00:32:53,558 --> 00:32:55,560
audio thing? I think it is audio thing.

426
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,600
Yeah, a lot more libraries being developed.

427
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,817
Well, I don't think it's ported over. It's just libraries that you know naturally

428
00:33:04,817 --> 00:33:10,017
would have gone on to contact and now going on to sandbox. The sandbox is great. I

429
00:33:10,017 --> 00:33:15,281
mean, it's a free it's a free player. But I mean, it's got a fraction of the amount

430
00:33:15,281 --> 00:33:20,418
of capabilities that that contacts got. But no, I mean, the contact libraries are

431
00:33:20,418 --> 00:33:25,682
still coming. But they see what you also understand, have to understand is contact.

432
00:33:25,682 --> 00:33:29,360
There's a lot of companies that develop their own players.

433
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,681
They claim a lot of it is because of they want to develop things differently and

434
00:33:35,681 --> 00:33:40,620
whatever. But the reality of the situation is they develop it because if you're

435
00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:45,746
going to develop a library for contact player, you have to pay them a license fee.

436
00:33:45,746 --> 00:33:50,934
And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the figure. But it's not cheap. And so

437
00:33:50,934 --> 00:33:53,560
there are people like kind of Spitfire and

438
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:02,115
sound paint that you were to work with. People are developing their own players. And

439
00:34:02,115 --> 00:34:07,090
I'm sure some of it is because they want to do specific things. But I think most of

440
00:34:07,090 --> 00:34:11,525
it is just because they don't want to be paying the licenses to contact. I

441
00:34:11,525 --> 00:34:16,200
appreciate that and understand that. So there's a lot of libraries coming out.

442
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,964
But yeah, and contacts still still contact still the main one at the end of the day.

443
00:34:21,964 --> 00:34:26,340
And it's still the best one, I'm sorry to say, because I've got all the other ones

444
00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:30,771
and they're all great and they all have their own place and do their own thing. But

445
00:34:30,771 --> 00:34:34,080
contact is still is still the best one for me anyway. So yeah.

446
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,668
Nick: Yeah. OK, well, so so we've done we've done native instruments. I'm just thinking

447
00:34:39,668 --> 00:34:44,065
we're going to the other thing that we're going to talk about, which I think is

448
00:34:44,065 --> 00:34:48,740
interesting. Maybe we'll have a slight amuse-bouche just because this is this. We'll

449
00:34:48,740 --> 00:34:53,415
throw this one in here and then we'll come back to our next one so that we're not on

450
00:34:53,415 --> 00:34:58,090
to back to back heavies. So this one's really interesting. This is the new Oak Sound

451
00:34:58,090 --> 00:34:59,760
sooth 3, which as far as I can

452
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,256
Speaker 2: tell, it's with great pleasure. And after a ton of research and development that

453
00:35:04,256 --> 00:35:08,751
we're releasing soothe 3. This video is meant for those who are already familiar

454
00:35:08,751 --> 00:35:13,190
with soothe 2. We're going to go over what's new and what's changed in this new

455
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:16,000
generation of soothe. You can also check out our I

456
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,127
Nick: won't play it. Or there's a load of really good little short videos out there at the

457
00:35:20,127 --> 00:35:24,156
moment, which is like this is what basically a crappy sounding acoustic guitar can

458
00:35:24,156 --> 00:35:28,087
sound like. And here's the boxiness and here's what soothe does with it and just

459
00:35:28,087 --> 00:35:32,018
removes everything and makes it all lovely. And it's not cheap. I mean, it's two

460
00:35:32,018 --> 00:35:36,096
hundred and fifty nine bucks. I mean, it's a premium plug in, but it's one of those

461
00:35:36,096 --> 00:35:39,880
ones that seems to have to be everywhere. Whenever I see people talk about it

462
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,909
everywhere, because it's great for just sort of taking fairly crappy sound sources

463
00:35:43,909 --> 00:35:48,036
and smoothing them out, even the making them easier to mix. You could use it live as

464
00:35:48,036 --> 00:35:51,819
well for suppressing resonant frequencies and stuff. I don't know, Tyze, it's

465
00:35:51,819 --> 00:35:55,947
something that you've come across. I mean, I guess most of your stuff is going to be

466
00:35:55,947 --> 00:35:59,976
pre processed if it's in sample libraries. It's already sounding nice. So it maybe

467
00:35:59,976 --> 00:36:03,956
doesn't need as much of that sort of work. But I'm not sure this is something you

468
00:36:03,956 --> 00:36:04,840
are familiar with.

469
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,640
Ty: Well, I'm going to say that Midge's album would not existed without soothe,

470
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:10,280
basically.

471
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,750
Well, I wouldn't. I mean, it's it's I've been there again since day one with soothe

472
00:36:16,750 --> 00:36:18,840
and then soothe two and now soothe three.

473
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,769
I can't even I can't recommend it highly enough. It's you know, you know, sometimes

474
00:36:24,769 --> 00:36:29,327
when you see these bits of software and they show the before and after and the

475
00:36:29,327 --> 00:36:34,235
bypass and then you actually get it and you're there going, really? This isn't quite

476
00:36:34,235 --> 00:36:38,850
as it was on the demos. This is the opposite of that. Everything, all the magic

477
00:36:38,850 --> 00:36:40,720
stuff that it does on the demos,

478
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,866
it does in the studio for you. It's just it's all so many issues and so many

479
00:36:47,866 --> 00:36:54,229
problems. And yeah, well, when I was doing the album, it was it was I lost a number

480
00:36:54,229 --> 00:37:00,361
of track how many had soothe on just to mainly to do with vocals and guitars and

481
00:37:00,361 --> 00:37:06,417
bass and a few bits of drums, whatever. It's just but it's also it's not just a

482
00:37:06,417 --> 00:37:12,320
problem solver. You can do creative, amazing creative things with it as well.

483
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,178
Yeah, because it's basically got soft and hard and especially on the new one, soothe

484
00:37:19,178 --> 00:37:23,410
three, the soft mode is basically they they've redeveloped it. So it's really

485
00:37:23,410 --> 00:37:27,808
transparent and basically does this really fantastic kind of combination between

486
00:37:27,808 --> 00:37:32,316
compression and dynamic EQ. And and it's it's really does it really transparently,

487
00:37:32,316 --> 00:37:36,768
but does the job. And then you put it into the hard setting and it can completely

488
00:37:36,768 --> 00:37:40,836
change the sound and all the all the artifacts that if you're trying to do

489
00:37:40,836 --> 00:37:45,399
transparently, you don't want from a sound creative point of view, you can get some

490
00:37:45,399 --> 00:37:49,962
really fantastic kind of pumping and sidechaining kind of effects. And yeah, soothe

491
00:37:49,962 --> 00:37:53,040
cannot recommend it highly enough. Absolutely fantastic.

492
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,880
Nick: I think they seem to be one of the sort of software superstar successes.

493
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:03,619
Ty: Oh, I mean, again, spiff. They do spiff as well. They do spiff as well by sounds and

494
00:38:03,619 --> 00:38:07,240
all of that. All of their plugins are just fantastic.

495
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:12,033
Nick: Yeah, I think you can run it in real time across inputs as well. Is it something

496
00:38:12,033 --> 00:38:17,065
you've come across? I mean, I guess working in, you know, the industry that you are,

497
00:38:17,065 --> 00:38:20,480
you will be aware of this. People must be referring to it

498
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,010
Amanda: 100 percent. Like soothe is definitely known as one of those plugins like, oh, yeah,

499
00:38:26,010 --> 00:38:31,409
it's a lot, but it makes everything sound really good. Right. So people people use

500
00:38:31,409 --> 00:38:36,808
it a lot. It definitely comes across. And it's a really interesting way of solving

501
00:38:36,808 --> 00:38:42,141
problems, right, instead of this kind of surgical. You're you're dialing in using

502
00:38:42,141 --> 00:38:47,540
your ears like this is kind of it's a bit of an intelligent helper. Right. It kind

503
00:38:47,540 --> 00:38:53,004
of just smooths it out. So it's like those those big changes you still do. But it's

504
00:38:53,004 --> 00:38:58,337
it's kind of like that final polish, you know. And I think I think this one has a

505
00:38:58,337 --> 00:38:59,720
new low latency mode.

506
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:04,626
Nick: So yeah, that one makes it better for almost almost zero milliseconds. I'm like, oh,

507
00:39:04,626 --> 00:39:09,358
wow, possible. Yeah, yeah, that's quite low. I'd say that's low latency. That's a

508
00:39:09,358 --> 00:39:10,000
little low.

509
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,140
Amanda: It's a little low. Yeah, exactly. So so so, yeah, I mean, it's been primarily a

510
00:39:14,140 --> 00:39:18,436
mixing tool, but but now kind of opens it up to be more of like a live performance

511
00:39:18,436 --> 00:39:20,480
and tracking tool, which is phenomenal.

512
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:26,773
Nick: I think I've seen it running to be able to run on the big digital design live desks.

513
00:39:26,773 --> 00:39:31,525
I think that's where where that was formerly TDM, whatever the whatever that is

514
00:39:31,525 --> 00:39:36,457
these days, I don't even know. Hey, hey, hey, X is it. I don't know. Yeah, I don't

515
00:39:36,457 --> 00:39:37,720
even know what it is.

516
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,141
So many. Yeah, that stuff. But yeah, that's going to be really handy. Anyway, just

517
00:39:43,141 --> 00:39:44,200
throw that in there.

518
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,412
I thought it was. But also, I mean, guessing a lot of what's happening here is

519
00:39:49,412 --> 00:39:53,787
machine learning and that stuff, which people I mean, they don't bang on about it

520
00:39:53,787 --> 00:39:58,269
being AI, which I think is kind of pretty positive because there might be some that

521
00:39:58,269 --> 00:40:02,374
they would, you know, the algorithmic and machine learning, which I think is

522
00:40:02,374 --> 00:40:06,640
probably more true of a lot of what is masquerading as AI than we would expect.

523
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,827
Amanda: Yeah, yeah, the term AI has gotten pretty toxic. And it's been around longer than

524
00:40:10,827 --> 00:40:14,755
people think, like a lot of the isotope, our ex stuff, you know, they have a

525
00:40:14,755 --> 00:40:18,941
assistance or machine learning. You know, it's been in for over a decade and it's

526
00:40:18,941 --> 00:40:23,128
been something that's been supporting musicians, you know, so but that's gotten a

527
00:40:23,128 --> 00:40:25,040
little more controversial these days.

528
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:30,425
Nick: It has was interesting when that does sort of take us to another topic, which I

529
00:40:30,425 --> 00:40:36,151
wanted to put those in between, but this kind of links up pretty nicely, I guess. So

530
00:40:36,151 --> 00:40:41,673
what we'll probably do is I'll run a bit of this that I've also got another ad to

531
00:40:41,673 --> 00:40:46,922
get in there, but I'm aware of this sort of stuff can go on. So this was just

532
00:40:46,922 --> 00:40:52,648
acceptable uses of AI. This was actually here we go. This is time of music where you

533
00:40:52,648 --> 00:40:55,920
use your voice. It's a library. It finds sounds.

534
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:56,160
Amanda: Oh,

535
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:04,600
yeah,

536
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:12,058
that one's really cool. It's like you're yeah, Tambor just launched this month.

537
00:41:12,058 --> 00:41:17,088
Right. There there's there's been finally some movement in the direction of

538
00:41:17,088 --> 00:41:22,252
assistive things that are helping workflows. And so that example was Tambor's

539
00:41:22,252 --> 00:41:27,617
librarian. They have a voice activation where you can actually at least from the

540
00:41:27,617 --> 00:41:32,915
demo from percussive sounds, give a percussive sounds and then it searches your

541
00:41:32,915 --> 00:41:36,000
library for samples that that that match that.

542
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,055
So so, yeah, I'm I'm really excited with some of the things that are coming out.

543
00:41:42,055 --> 00:41:47,109
Tambor has that's a creative suite that also has samples, some some a generative

544
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:48,120
samples as well.

545
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,581
Sample library they made and the librarian as well as voice assisted in orbit audio

546
00:41:54,581 --> 00:41:59,872
is another one that's like in the beta stages, right? There they're doing sign up

547
00:41:59,872 --> 00:42:05,163
for early access and they're really looking to solve the problem of your creative

548
00:42:05,163 --> 00:42:10,649
workflow, like putting music, putting a layer on your computer that read your sample

549
00:42:10,649 --> 00:42:15,940
libraries, regardless of what program you're using and just starting to take take

550
00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:20,774
note of your creative workflows and how it can can help. It also has voice

551
00:42:20,774 --> 00:42:26,064
activated. Hey, I'm looking for like a distorted, you know, kick drum here and it

552
00:42:26,064 --> 00:42:31,420
gives you those samples and find similar ones. So so, yeah, I'm I'm pretty excited

553
00:42:31,420 --> 00:42:36,515
about this because as you could see, I'm like already jumping into it. The the

554
00:42:36,515 --> 00:42:41,936
conversation has been overtaken by generative, right? Generative music and a lot of

555
00:42:41,936 --> 00:42:47,292
companies that I frankly call them tech music companies, not music tech companies.

556
00:42:47,292 --> 00:42:52,518
These are people who have scientists who have developed generative, a generative

557
00:42:52,518 --> 00:42:57,743
music and then look for a problem to solve. Right. They're like, how can we sell

558
00:42:57,743 --> 00:43:02,969
this? Right. And I'm really interested. I really think we need more music makers

559
00:43:02,969 --> 00:43:08,129
making music products that are solving actual workflow solutions for people. So

560
00:43:08,129 --> 00:43:10,480
that's like my whole soapbox. Right.

561
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,480
So so, you know, I think like in orbit, Tambor Roax is a great one that does

562
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,480
similar to isotope, but but more automated mixing

563
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,823
and mastering, which is really, really great, as well as as file leaders. It's more

564
00:43:28,823 --> 00:43:30,760
utilitarian and that one's more.

565
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,534
Nick: Yeah, that was interesting. Yeah, the file is where you can just. But I mean, I

566
00:43:35,534 --> 00:43:40,489
don't know, you have to deliverables. I imagine the cues and then the submixes and

567
00:43:40,489 --> 00:43:45,324
the kind of like, do you have to do? Do you have to deliver all of that stuff? I

568
00:43:45,324 --> 00:43:50,400
mean, I'm guessing. I mean, let's let's be one thing that's very clear is where this

569
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,416
is not about maybe giving generative AI. Any kind of platform, I don't think any of

570
00:43:55,416 --> 00:44:00,431
us any of us are interested in that. And I don't think our audience are either. But

571
00:44:00,431 --> 00:44:05,387
my umbrella topic was was kind of OK, it's a technology that we can use. What what

572
00:44:05,387 --> 00:44:10,100
uses would it be useful for, I suppose, if you were to use that sort of stuff?

573
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:14,995
Because we probably all are anyway, to a degree, without even knowing it, whether

574
00:44:14,995 --> 00:44:19,648
it's in searches or whatever. And I was just saying, so deliverables. I mean,

575
00:44:19,648 --> 00:44:21,280
finally, it seems I mean, I

576
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:27,920
Ty: think that would be a fantastic use of it if you if you could in terms of stems and

577
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:35,280
yet just deliverables, if you could just literally turn around and give it a project

578
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,040
and without having to do all the sorting out all of the.

579
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,216
The dirty work that takes forever, just when you when you're working on a cue,

580
00:44:46,216 --> 00:44:51,216
because the reality is when you're working on a cue, you'd be and you're doing it

581
00:44:51,216 --> 00:44:56,217
really quickly. The last thing you'll want to do when you're working on pieces of

582
00:44:56,217 --> 00:45:01,403
music very quickly is sit there going, now I must group them together so that when I

583
00:45:01,403 --> 00:45:06,404
come to produce the stems in next week, I, you know, kind of they're all together

584
00:45:06,404 --> 00:45:11,404
and they're all collected on the same folder. When you're working quickly, that's

585
00:45:11,404 --> 00:45:16,528
the last thing you're thinking about. If there was somewhere, someone some way that

586
00:45:16,528 --> 00:45:21,282
I could do that with you all the way, that would be fun. That would be really

587
00:45:21,282 --> 00:45:26,406
helpful in terms of the sample searching thing. I've bought it, but I've never used

588
00:45:26,406 --> 00:45:31,531
it. Is it is it called XO? The by who the excellent audio. Yeah, the audio. So so I

589
00:45:31,531 --> 00:45:36,408
mean, I bought that because I saw a demo of that. Oh, my God, that looks really

590
00:45:36,408 --> 00:45:36,840
useful.

591
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,889
I installed it and I've never used it. But again, that that if it could do that kind

592
00:45:42,889 --> 00:45:44,560
of thing, but in a more kind of

593
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,000
accurate way, that would be fun.

594
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,360
Amanda: Why haven't you used it? Why haven't you used it?

595
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:58,339
Ty: Because I don't I don't have time to fart. Never mind. Leaving things to analyze my

596
00:45:58,339 --> 00:46:02,280
hard drives of which are just ridiculous.

597
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,790
But yeah, that's that's all it is. I kind of I love the idea of it, but I genuinely

598
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:11,950
just haven't had time to. And I bought it ages ago. And if I'm honest, I bought ages

599
00:46:11,950 --> 00:46:16,110
ago, had all the best intentions and then just forgot about it. And it's only whilst

600
00:46:16,110 --> 00:46:20,023
talking about this. Because as as Nick said, I mean, everyone knows anyone that

601
00:46:20,023 --> 00:46:20,320
cares.

602
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,407
My views on AI generally as an umbrella are it is shite. I never want to have

603
00:46:25,407 --> 00:46:27,880
anything to do that. It should be shot at birth.

604
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,280
That's very much how I see. I actually had the conversation with someone today.

605
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:39,200
Basically, we were talking about tech and about AI and about deep fake stuff in

606
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:44,370
terms of within money and general people, you know, being scammed and all this kind

607
00:46:44,370 --> 00:46:49,414
of thing. And honestly, if I had my way and I do really mean this, if there was a

608
00:46:49,414 --> 00:46:54,646
way that you could box up all the AI in the world and go, do you know what, we tried

609
00:46:54,646 --> 00:46:59,877
it and it hasn't gone so well. We'll just put it all back in the box and we're going

610
00:46:59,877 --> 00:47:04,922
bury it somewhere and then cover it with, you know, kind of 300 feet of concrete.

611
00:47:04,922 --> 00:47:09,655
That's how I would do with AI, because I understand its benefits in terms of

612
00:47:09,655 --> 00:47:14,887
medicine. Fantastic. But in so many other areas, it's like everything in this world,

613
00:47:14,887 --> 00:47:19,994
it will be misused. And sometimes it's for scamming and for doing bad and criminal

614
00:47:19,994 --> 00:47:25,226
activity. And in my case, the way that AI is used at the moment, generally speaking,

615
00:47:25,226 --> 00:47:30,021
and is really, really encouraged, is all about generative, because apparently

616
00:47:30,021 --> 00:47:35,004
musicians, we don't as musicians, we don't enjoy, remember, do you remember this

617
00:47:35,004 --> 00:47:40,111
statement? 100%. We don't enjoy making music. At the same time, if we can just put

618
00:47:40,111 --> 00:47:45,218
generative stuff to one which I think is literally the work of the devil, if I can

619
00:47:45,218 --> 00:47:50,138
in some way incorporate it, that's going to make my life easier in a just speed

620
00:47:50,138 --> 00:47:55,307
things up kind of way. And it means that if I could turn around and go, just say, I

621
00:47:55,307 --> 00:48:00,414
want a baseline that is, you know, kind of resonant filter, you know, kind of band

622
00:48:00,414 --> 00:48:05,459
pass, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it gives me some suggestions. That's fine. It's

623
00:48:05,459 --> 00:48:10,441
not doing anything for me. All it's doing exactly what I would do, except rather

624
00:48:10,441 --> 00:48:15,611
than me taking half an hour to find the right sense and with the right settings and

625
00:48:15,611 --> 00:48:18,600
then work on it. It's basically doing it for me.

626
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,552
That I can even that I can just about cope with that. And it really is in my head,

627
00:48:25,552 --> 00:48:30,562
because the other half of my brain is going, hang on a minute, I've learned to do

628
00:48:30,562 --> 00:48:35,634
this since I was 14 years old on my first and I've learned synthesis, I've learned

629
00:48:35,634 --> 00:48:40,644
all of this. And there is a bit of me begrudgingly going, I've spent 30 odd years

630
00:48:40,644 --> 00:48:45,840
learning this and now I can just turn around and speak to it and it'll do it for me.

631
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:51,066
Amanda: And there's a bit of me going. I know it's like learning how to beat match on vinyl

632
00:48:51,066 --> 00:48:56,355
and now there's a sync button. You're just like, why? Why did you do this to me? But

633
00:48:56,355 --> 00:49:01,392
at the end of the day, it's like that's technology for you. It's like we used to

634
00:49:01,392 --> 00:49:05,800
ride horses and no one knows how to ride a horse anymore. Right. Yeah.

635
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:14,158
And so it's like, you know, but to your point, I feel like the conversation has been

636
00:49:14,158 --> 00:49:19,520
owned so far by folks who aren't musicians and the party tricks.

637
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,240
Nick: And so it's like party

638
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:26,912
Amanda: tricks to raise funds for VC folks who also don't know anything about the industry.

639
00:49:26,912 --> 00:49:31,415
And so and there's some really great folks who at some of those bigger companies

640
00:49:31,415 --> 00:49:35,805
that are developing really great things for musicians, but it's really hard to

641
00:49:35,805 --> 00:49:40,477
bubble up those product ideas when the people at the top maybe don't see, you know,

642
00:49:40,477 --> 00:49:45,037
you right now, I think we're at a point in technology, in music technology, where

643
00:49:45,037 --> 00:49:49,596
you really need to have people with a point of view, right? People who are making

644
00:49:49,596 --> 00:49:54,212
products with a point of view who have had to tear their hair out for a particular

645
00:49:54,212 --> 00:49:58,940
problem at 2am and be like, why hasn't someone solved this, right? Co-creating those

646
00:49:58,940 --> 00:50:03,668
products with people who know how to make music products and have done it for a long

647
00:50:03,668 --> 00:50:08,396
time, right? And funding those kind of companies, right? Those grassroots companies,

648
00:50:08,396 --> 00:50:13,125
they're not as shiny and party trick is, hey, we just made a whole song for you. But

649
00:50:13,125 --> 00:50:17,628
this is these are the kind of technologies that are be helpful and useful day to

650
00:50:17,628 --> 00:50:22,074
day, day in and day out. And people will can't live without them. Right. And so

651
00:50:22,074 --> 00:50:24,720
that's, that's the stuff I'm. So excited about.

652
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:29,760
Nick: I agree. I think the problem is because of the level of investment that's gone into

653
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,193
the sort of general AI rather than specialized, which would be, you know,

654
00:50:34,193 --> 00:50:36,440
specialized would be audio and light.

655
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,040
Amanda: Need specialized. Yeah, totally.

656
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:42,421
Nick: Whatever is the amount of money it costs to fund to run the computers to access

657
00:50:42,421 --> 00:50:46,914
those models. It makes a niche product like this sort of almost unattainable. You

658
00:50:46,914 --> 00:50:51,351
know, it's actually cheaper to have a human do it really. Good point. Because it

659
00:50:51,351 --> 00:50:55,898
would cost. So I think that's where where things are, where things are changing. I

660
00:50:55,898 --> 00:51:00,391
think where things are going to change and they're going to change pretty rapidly

661
00:51:00,391 --> 00:51:04,827
is, you know, we've been certainly in the States and in other other nations have

662
00:51:04,827 --> 00:51:09,264
been sort of running headlong into massive data centers and these huge points of

663
00:51:09,264 --> 00:51:13,923
failure and power and everything. Whereas we've all got extremely powerful computers

664
00:51:13,923 --> 00:51:18,360
at our, you know, many of us have very powerful computers at our fingertips that

665
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,908
could be used for local stuff. And then that's where the key is. And also, I mean,

666
00:51:22,908 --> 00:51:27,455
it's like what you're describing, Ty, is we need, there needs to be something that

667
00:51:27,455 --> 00:51:31,670
kind of is interfacing with the door at a level that understands your way of

668
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:36,329
working. So you would describe it as, you know, if you just said, look, all I've got

669
00:51:36,329 --> 00:51:40,988
time for is to color the tracks for base blue and the other things like this. And so

670
00:51:40,988 --> 00:51:45,369
if you just, can you just do that? So just take that input and do this with it,

671
00:51:45,369 --> 00:51:49,917
please. Yeah, that would be enough. But the mundanity. Yeah, yeah. But ultimately,

672
00:51:49,917 --> 00:51:54,354
you still need to have it give it some kind of structure because it cannot be in

673
00:51:54,354 --> 00:51:58,957
your head. You can't look at it and go, you know, that's a base sound, I think. And

674
00:51:58,957 --> 00:52:01,120
it's like, no, it's not. It's it's not.

675
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:06,045
Ty: The thing is, it wouldn't be difficult to do that, because all you have to do is

676
00:52:06,045 --> 00:52:11,032
give it some past work you've done without that level and turn around and go, OK,

677
00:52:11,032 --> 00:52:16,203
analyze this. This is how my head works. This is how I color my tracks. And it would

678
00:52:16,203 --> 00:52:21,313
take nothing to learn that because there would be continuity because we will. I do.

679
00:52:21,313 --> 00:52:24,760
I tend to go for the same colors, you know, kind of from

680
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,520
Nick: a template, presumably as well.

681
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:31,001
Ty: Absolutely that because we've had this conversation before. Everything that I ever

682
00:52:31,001 --> 00:52:35,372
do starts from a template. So all it needs to do is analyze the templates and it

683
00:52:35,372 --> 00:52:39,853
will see the common themes and it will know what to do that that I absolutely that

684
00:52:39,853 --> 00:52:42,640
would that kind of stuff. Yes, that would be great.

685
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:47,588
Amanda: I can't imagine if you're like having you're doing your session and it's recording

686
00:52:47,588 --> 00:52:52,475
your session, your how you do your session and then it just knows how you do your

687
00:52:52,475 --> 00:52:53,320
session. Yeah.

688
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:59,493
Ty: Yeah. I mean, that that kind of stuff is is is fine. It's just trying to very much

689
00:52:59,493 --> 00:53:05,440
separate that from things like Suno and trash like that. You know, kind of, you

690
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:10,370
Nick: know, that's I suppose that they're the kind of they're the shiny objects that get

691
00:53:10,370 --> 00:53:15,421
people talking about it that raise the funding. I think part of the problem is is at

692
00:53:15,421 --> 00:53:20,292
the moment we're in a really bad situation where money is made from products that

693
00:53:20,292 --> 00:53:25,162
don't exist yet. And then all this fun. Just kind of is the bubble. The bubble in

694
00:53:25,162 --> 00:53:29,852
the US is is absolutely terrifying. It's really, really interesting. There's a

695
00:53:29,852 --> 00:53:34,843
really interesting analogy. I listen to a couple of different podcasts. One of them

696
00:53:34,843 --> 00:53:39,653
was just about the way that China is doing similar things in terms of, you know,

697
00:53:39,653 --> 00:53:44,463
massive AI. But the way that they do it is very different to the way that states

698
00:53:44,463 --> 00:53:49,333
like the US do it. One of the US does it in capitalism is in a litigious form. So

699
00:53:49,333 --> 00:53:54,204
it's it's restrained and it's kept kept in check by rules which tend to favor the

700
00:53:54,204 --> 00:53:59,134
people who are not who have got more money. Whereas in China, they just go have at

701
00:53:59,134 --> 00:54:04,125
it, help yourselves. It's all free. And then they help the top ones. So it's just a

702
00:54:04,125 --> 00:54:08,995
different it's a different approach. And it seems to me that I think one might be

703
00:54:08,995 --> 00:54:11,280
better than the other for some reason.

704
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,399
Ty: The biggest problem I have more than anything else with with things like Suno,

705
00:54:15,399 --> 00:54:19,360
because that's the one that I know that I've encountered from other people.

706
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,649
Point me in the direction of it for different reasons. It's more to do. I think it's

707
00:54:25,649 --> 00:54:30,163
actually a social thing because it's more to do with the fact that you just read so

708
00:54:30,163 --> 00:54:34,677
much of these people that are I'm going to use this in vertical as writing songs or

709
00:54:34,677 --> 00:54:39,083
producing tracks on sooner. You're not don't be an idiot. Anyway, whatever you're

710
00:54:39,083 --> 00:54:43,597
doing on Suno, they they honestly think they sincerely think that they're producing

711
00:54:43,597 --> 00:54:47,948
music. They sincerely think that they're writing this and no matter how much you

712
00:54:47,948 --> 00:54:52,354
want to turn to go. No, you're not. You are not doing anything. You're putting in

713
00:54:52,354 --> 00:54:56,923
some text and giving it some reference points to then go and rip off the people that

714
00:54:56,923 --> 00:55:01,383
have done it in the because through learning and legal learning because this music

715
00:55:01,383 --> 00:55:05,843
should never been able to be ripped off in the way that you're ripping off. That's

716
00:55:05,843 --> 00:55:10,248
all you're doing. That's and then you're that's that's that's another whole point

717
00:55:10,248 --> 00:55:14,708
that this music should not be accessible. And eventually this legally, this is all

718
00:55:14,708 --> 00:55:19,059
going to go completely ballistic. And someone is going to win a case where their

719
00:55:19,059 --> 00:55:23,628
music can't be nicked. And then the floodgates are open. And then this entire thing,

720
00:55:23,628 --> 00:55:28,088
Suno will go back up its own ass and it will not be soon enough. And everyone that

721
00:55:28,088 --> 00:55:32,657
writes with Suno and honestly believes that they're writing music or writing tracks.

722
00:55:32,657 --> 00:55:35,920
You are delusional. You are. Well, let's you. You are money.

723
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,800
Amanda: Let me let me push back on that a little bit. Right. Oh,

724
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,240
no. Oh, no.

725
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:50,280
Gloves are off. All this sweet California girls just ruining your day. OK, so.

726
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:57,820
No. So 100 percent correct. They have ripped off the entire catalog of human music

727
00:55:57,820 --> 00:56:03,874
to make these tools and legally and all of this is a quagmire. It's a nightmare and

728
00:56:03,874 --> 00:56:09,854
it's already wreaking havoc on your job. Lots of jobs and all that. So I'm putting

729
00:56:09,854 --> 00:56:15,834
that whole bundle of I agree with you to the side. Right now. And and there are we

730
00:56:15,834 --> 00:56:21,669
are now seeing a new persona, a new group of type of music makers who don't know

731
00:56:21,669 --> 00:56:27,576
what it means to make music. Right. These are people I kind of see them like DJs,

732
00:56:27,576 --> 00:56:33,629
right? Like DJs, curators, right, who are curating music and making things, but but

733
00:56:33,629 --> 00:56:39,391
not at the granularity and the level. But I think this could be an amazing step

734
00:56:39,391 --> 00:56:45,517
stepping stone to make more music makers. Right. Because that work from being coming

735
00:56:45,517 --> 00:56:51,570
a DJ and a music curator to a music writer, that step is huge. I've taken that step

736
00:56:51,570 --> 00:56:57,623
and it is very hard. So we now have this intermediate step of that. And then now we

737
00:56:57,623 --> 00:57:03,312
have generating stems. Right. You can do generative stems. And so then you can

738
00:57:03,312 --> 00:57:09,365
generate some stems. Oh, and then maybe I can practice making my own drum beat or I

739
00:57:09,365 --> 00:57:15,127
can practice a piano or I can sing into it. And so the studio is kind of like a

740
00:57:15,127 --> 00:57:20,451
gateway drug to being able to break apart those stems. And once you start

741
00:57:20,451 --> 00:57:26,504
understanding music and then starting real music makers will use this as a stepping

742
00:57:26,504 --> 00:57:29,640
stone to actually become real music makers.

743
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:34,415
Ty: Right. Real music makers would bypass this completely. That's the bottom line. Real

744
00:57:34,415 --> 00:57:34,760
music.

745
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,000
Nick: Well, only if they already know. I know. It's 12 years old.

746
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,480
Amanda: If they're 12 years old. Absolutely.

747
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,781
Ty: I started playing piano. I was eight years old. I've got friends whose kids are

748
00:57:44,781 --> 00:57:48,320
five, six, seven years of learning music. Real music. Real music.

749
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,981
Amanda: But they're not drummers. They're not bass players, right? My daughter's a drummer.

750
00:57:51,981 --> 00:57:55,422
Right. No, I'm saying, but like a piano player, you're starting playing piano,

751
00:57:55,422 --> 00:57:59,084
you're not going to necessarily be a drummer right off the bat too. So you're going

752
00:57:59,084 --> 00:58:00,760
to maybe generate some drums to go on.

753
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,877
Ty: You learn the same way that I learned to drum the same way I learned to play guitar.

754
00:58:04,877 --> 00:58:08,847
And I learned to play saxophone. And the same way that real music makers learn to

755
00:58:08,847 --> 00:58:09,680
play instruments.

756
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:10,120
Nick: No,

757
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,787
I think there's some value to both of those arguments, but I'm going to have to

758
00:58:15,787 --> 00:58:20,299
interject because I have an advert to play, but I've got to come back to you later

759
00:58:20,299 --> 00:58:21,840
as well. Be back after this.

760
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,200
Right. I wanted to come back at the time because just purely, interestingly, Mark

761
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,760
Tinley, who's been a regular guest on this show,

762
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:36,480
he's had lots of life shit that he's had to deal with. He's been a musician for

763
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:42,043
years and years and years. He's written lots and lots and he's been posting pieces

764
00:58:42,043 --> 00:58:43,400
of music that he has

765
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,532
had in the back pocket for a long time. So he's had sort of songs that he's written

766
00:58:48,532 --> 00:58:52,361
that hasn't finished arranging them. And he's been feeding them into things like

767
00:58:52,361 --> 00:58:56,333
Suno Studio and using aspects of what it spits back at him from his own material to

768
00:58:56,333 --> 00:59:00,353
reframe, rearrange and finish some of those arrangements. And I think, and he's sort

769
00:59:00,353 --> 00:59:04,326
of said, I don't know how I should feel about this because I wouldn't have finished

770
00:59:04,326 --> 00:59:08,298
this song. Now I've got this and I think it's quite good because it's my lyrics, my

771
00:59:08,298 --> 00:59:12,175
melody, some of the other aspects are this sort of hybrid thing. So there is this

772
00:59:12,175 --> 00:59:15,860
sort of gray area. I mean, I know, you know, that that's the I suppose that's

773
00:59:15,860 --> 00:59:19,736
something that's kind of interesting. I wonder what you think about that in terms

774
00:59:19,736 --> 00:59:19,880
of.

775
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:25,254
Ty: Look, I should just say I. So I've got a friend who was in a very long term marriage

776
00:59:25,254 --> 00:59:30,501
and she very suddenly got taken Hill and unfortunately, three months in she passed

777
00:59:30,501 --> 00:59:35,811
away. She used to write poetry and his way of dealing with the grief was he used to

778
00:59:35,811 --> 00:59:40,993
put the poetry in to Suno. They used to they used to give the reference points of

779
00:59:40,993 --> 00:59:46,047
all the music that they've loved over the years. And Suno used to produce these

780
00:59:46,047 --> 00:59:51,230
tracks. Now he will be the first to admit that those pieces of music are amazing.

781
00:59:51,230 --> 00:59:56,028
What came out the other end are truly incredible. They sound the vocals are

782
00:59:56,028 --> 01:00:01,338
unbelievable. The string writing is unbelievable. Everything about it is fantastic.

783
01:00:01,338 --> 01:00:06,713
But he he as a musician appreciates that this is it's not real music. It's basically

784
01:00:06,713 --> 01:00:12,023
it is for him. It's therapy. And so that kind of use that kind of use. I appreciate

785
01:00:12,023 --> 01:00:17,397
and the way that Mark, you know, kind of you're absolutely right. Mark's had to deal

786
01:00:17,397 --> 01:00:22,515
with a whole load of crap in his life. And so that is as much therapy for him. I

787
01:00:22,515 --> 01:00:27,890
would honestly say, I think it is the fact he's got these things finished. That kind

788
01:00:27,890 --> 01:00:33,008
of usage, I have to sit here and go, that has its that has its use. That has its

789
01:00:33,008 --> 01:00:38,062
value. That has its purpose. The reality is, I honestly think the the amount of

790
01:00:38,062 --> 01:00:43,309
people citing people like my friend and like Mark are make such a small percentage

791
01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:48,555
if people that and the thing is, my friend actually comes in admitting that before

792
01:00:48,555 --> 01:00:53,801
his wife unfortunately died, she did actually turn around and go, whatever you do,

793
01:00:53,801 --> 01:00:57,640
don't play any of this to tie because tie will go ballistic.

794
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:04,108
And knowing my view on all of this, but I what I'm saying is in those instances, as

795
01:01:04,108 --> 01:01:09,041
everything in life, there are always exceptions. And there are always valued

796
01:01:09,041 --> 01:01:14,170
exceptions. I all I know is that percentage would be so you then I because I've

797
01:01:14,170 --> 01:01:19,428
looked at all the sooner sites, you look at the people who genuinely believe that

798
01:01:19,428 --> 01:01:24,816
they are writing, you know, it's their music and they are geniuses. And you look at

799
01:01:24,816 --> 01:01:30,269
them, and they're the ones you kind of go, no, it is not you are not go and learn to

800
01:01:30,269 --> 01:01:35,721
play an instrument or go and do it the way that we've all had to do it. God, I sound

801
01:01:35,721 --> 01:01:36,760
like an old man.

802
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:41,110
Nick: I mean, I am I am getting back to the fifties and rock and roll, you know, it just

803
01:01:41,110 --> 01:01:44,240
sort of feels a little bit but there is a little but I know

804
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,908
Ty: even then, even then it still all came back to me. This is the thing it all came

805
01:01:49,908 --> 01:01:55,647
back to if you travel back from from everything from 2000 backwards, before loops

806
01:01:55,647 --> 01:02:01,598
before AI before all of this. Yes, music changed. And yes, every generation went all

807
01:02:01,598 --> 01:02:07,195
that music's crappy, never it's not like it used to be. Every generation's done

808
01:02:07,195 --> 01:02:13,005
that. But the reality is, it was all done on human beings learning instruments for

809
01:02:13,005 --> 01:02:14,280
hundreds of years.

810
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,360
Amanda: And now it isn't from machines have no soul.

811
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:23,040
Remember that? Remember the bumper sticker? Of course. Machine have no soul.

812
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:29,400
Nick: That's a really I mean, but Amanda, you know, I was I was thinking, you know, I,

813
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,852
I started out in music because I could sample things and sampling. Yeah. Yeah. And

814
01:02:35,852 --> 01:02:41,159
that helped me put together rhythm tracks that I couldn't possibly have played or

815
01:02:41,159 --> 01:02:41,880
programmed.

816
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,382
And that's a stepping. So I'm using the machinery to kind of aid me. So I suppose

817
01:02:47,382 --> 01:02:51,953
there's a thing. And I think your point is, I know you you've mentioned at least at

818
01:02:51,953 --> 01:02:56,360
some point, the problem that we have is that the fact that it what the data it's

819
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:00,987
trained on, I wonder if there's room for this this notion of ethical training, where

820
01:03:00,987 --> 01:03:05,393
you know that you're not it's not the combined body of work, it's just something

821
01:03:05,393 --> 01:03:09,800
else or specially commissioned. I don't know. Is there a difference? I mean, oh,

822
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:16,090
Amanda: absolutely, absolutely. And there are ethically trained data sets out there. Tambour

823
01:03:16,090 --> 01:03:22,155
has generative AI in their product. And it's all trained on sample libraries that

824
01:03:22,155 --> 01:03:25,600
they built, right? So there are ways to do it.

825
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,240
But but yeah, it's still the

826
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:36,852
thing. Is it yours, right? And that and that's, that's always that's always the

827
01:03:36,852 --> 01:03:42,749
tricky part. That we have to do out but there are there are 100% ethical ways to do

828
01:03:42,749 --> 01:03:48,503
this. It's just wasn't the fast and easy way for these companies to do it. So and

829
01:03:48,503 --> 01:03:53,760
they just did it. And that is one of the biggest sins of the 21st century.

830
01:03:54,800 --> 01:04:00,365
100%. You know, but so getting back to the show title there, Amanda, it is the

831
01:04:00,365 --> 01:04:05,931
biggest sin of the 21st century is stealing the entire conglomeration of human

832
01:04:05,931 --> 01:04:10,640
thought and and and capitalizing on it. It's the worst thing ever.

833
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:17,249
And it'll give us great things and and terrible things and but assistive tools. So

834
01:04:17,249 --> 01:04:22,684
here's here's my here's my wish list. Automation assistance, I would like help with

835
01:04:22,684 --> 01:04:27,661
automation. I hate writing automation. I just don't like it, especially over

836
01:04:27,661 --> 01:04:33,096
multiple tracks. And if there's some way that the computer can do that for me, I am

837
01:04:33,096 --> 01:04:38,596
happy. I am I write electronic music, I DJ, I only have a couple hours a week in the

838
01:04:38,596 --> 01:04:44,031
studio if that so automation, please, right? Vocal enhancers, not replacers, right?

839
01:04:44,031 --> 01:04:49,401
There are a ton of vocal replacers out there right now. I can sing. I was in choir

840
01:04:49,401 --> 01:04:54,901
for four years. I have a voice. It's not a great voice, but it's a voice. And I want

841
01:04:54,901 --> 01:05:00,271
to use it, but I want it to sound like I want it to sound, you know. So if there's

842
01:05:00,271 --> 01:05:05,706
ways to use AI tools to to enhance the voice, I mean, Melodyne and Auto-Tune, those

843
01:05:05,706 --> 01:05:11,141
are those are great. I mean, we need a new Melodyne. Melodyne needs a new Melodyne.

844
01:05:11,141 --> 01:05:16,576
There's there's great opportunities in there to to really shape your own vocal in a

845
01:05:16,576 --> 01:05:22,010
way that could be a lot more elastic than I think it can be now. And then just like

846
01:05:22,010 --> 01:05:27,380
mix coaches, like there's a lot of automagical mixers and mastering solutions, but

847
01:05:27,380 --> 01:05:32,880
I'd love a coach. I'd love someone to just be like, hey, you know, why don't you try

848
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:38,184
playing with this at, you know, 20 dB or 2 dB and see if it sounds better, right?

849
01:05:38,184 --> 01:05:43,554
Those sorts of things. I think we're really close to that. Just the audio analysis

850
01:05:43,554 --> 01:05:48,727
thing. I think that's pretty close. Yeah. And yeah, the voice activation in the

851
01:05:48,727 --> 01:05:54,096
studio, I think that's something we're already starting to see and could be really

852
01:05:54,096 --> 01:05:59,531
helpful and could be also really frustrating. It's just like yelling at your intern

853
01:05:59,531 --> 01:06:04,901
producer friend, right? So it's a double-edged sword there. So those are those are

854
01:06:04,901 --> 01:06:07,520
that's my wish list, you know, so all of

855
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:12,948
Ty: those are totally, totally justifiable. But I tell you the way I kind of see this, I

856
01:06:12,948 --> 01:06:17,600
kind of hope in a way, if I'm honest, I kind of see it. Do you remember,

857
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,799
oh God, 2000, whenever it was, when was the iPad invented? 2010? Would it be 2000?

858
01:06:23,799 --> 01:06:28,619
Ish? Yeah. Ish. Okay. Do you remember how all of a sudden there was a move within

859
01:06:28,619 --> 01:06:33,498
the world that everything was? How to be an app? Do you remember? I just remember,

860
01:06:33,498 --> 01:06:38,378
you know, kind of, it's when like the Raven came out and all of a sudden you don't

861
01:06:38,378 --> 01:06:43,376
need a mix and desk. You don't need a screen, the touch screen, everything was touch

862
01:06:43,376 --> 01:06:48,374
screen. And same with cars, everything and cars, everything is touchscreen. And just

863
01:06:48,374 --> 01:06:53,194
like the way it's gone with cars now, and just like the way it's gone in terms of

864
01:06:53,194 --> 01:06:57,776
controllers, because for years, there was suddenly everything was touchscreen

865
01:06:57,776 --> 01:07:02,536
controllers. Now, everyone wants it to go back to knobs. Everyone wants physical

866
01:07:02,536 --> 01:07:07,356
controllers. Everyone wants to realize that touchscreen is not the be all and end

867
01:07:07,356 --> 01:07:12,175
all that we thought it was going to be. And I honestly would love to believe, and

868
01:07:12,175 --> 01:07:16,936
I'm probably totally delusional. I'd love to believe that a lot of the crap that

869
01:07:16,936 --> 01:07:21,815
we're getting at the moment about everything is AI, every single thing is AI, skip

870
01:07:21,815 --> 01:07:26,456
forward 15 years and everyone will turn around and go, God, have you seen this

871
01:07:26,456 --> 01:07:30,800
thing? It's just, it's just a mixer. It's called a guitar. Yeah, exactly.

872
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:37,000
It's just a, it's just a mixer. You have to do everything yourself, you know.

873
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,998
Amanda: I have 100%. I 100% agree with you. The safest place to be right now is a live

874
01:07:41,998 --> 01:07:43,280
performing musician.

875
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:49,058
Absolutely. 100%. Recorded music is going to be just a nightmare. But, but, but, you

876
01:07:49,058 --> 01:07:53,605
know, working at a speaker company would be great right now, right? It's just like

877
01:07:53,605 --> 01:07:54,880
people will always want

878
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:01,200
community, you know, community and playing music together.

879
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,217
There's going to be a virtual world where that's much more possible on the

880
01:08:06,217 --> 01:08:10,306
electronic side of things. But on the acoustic side of things, I think there's, I

881
01:08:10,306 --> 01:08:14,194
think we're going to see a great resurgence in art and musicality, because if

882
01:08:14,194 --> 01:08:18,436
anybody can make a song, who's going to want to listen to a DJ? They don't even know

883
01:08:18,436 --> 01:08:22,627
if they wrote the song or not. Right. So live performance is going to be where it's

884
01:08:22,627 --> 01:08:25,000
at. So yeah, I 100% agree with you on that one.

885
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,720
Ty: That in itself is awesome.

886
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:32,274
Nick: Yeah. Well, we do need a resurgence of venues, certainly in the UK. And I've seen

887
01:08:32,274 --> 01:08:32,480
it.

888
01:08:32,480 --> 01:08:37,706
Amanda: Yeah, I yeah, 100%. I think yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, I think it's coming. It

889
01:08:37,706 --> 01:08:40,000
might be a second, but, but I agree.

890
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:44,327
Nick: Yeah. Well, that'd be good. Hey, that feels like a positive note. It feels like a

891
01:08:44,327 --> 01:08:48,761
good note to actually maybe consider drawing things to an end. It's been absolutely

892
01:08:48,761 --> 01:08:53,249
amazing. I want to thank very much our chat, chatties for being in there, hanging in

893
01:08:53,249 --> 01:08:57,683
there with us. I know it's not been the usual list of topics, but I think it's been

894
01:08:57,683 --> 01:09:02,117
a fascinating discussion. I want to say thanks to Wagyu for the excellent work with

895
01:09:02,117 --> 01:09:06,391
moderating. I haven't seen anybody banned or anything. So we obviously, maybe we

896
01:09:06,391 --> 01:09:10,558
haven't done our job properly. Maybe, maybe, maybe we should have actually got

897
01:09:10,558 --> 01:09:11,520
people a bit more.

898
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:12,440
Amanda: Oh, well, there he is.

899
01:09:12,440 --> 01:09:16,160
Nick: Maybe I should go in the chat. I'll get banned.

900
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,000
If you were there, he'd probably ban you. Fantastic. I would.

901
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:27,391
No, Ty, thank you so much for joining us. It's great. And I mean, in a way, I hope

902
01:09:27,391 --> 01:09:32,564
you do have more time as a result of your current situation, but I kind of want you

903
01:09:32,564 --> 01:09:37,674
not, not to have lost the gig, you know, so I don't quite know how to, no, no, no,

904
01:09:37,674 --> 01:09:38,360
no, please.

905
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:43,315
Ty: I very much do want to, seriously, in all seriousness, I very much do want to,

906
01:09:43,315 --> 01:09:48,523
because the thought of going back onto it now is really not appealing. So I'm very

907
01:09:48,523 --> 01:09:53,796
much resigned to the fact that, you know, kind of that's, that's fine. I'm good. So

908
01:09:53,796 --> 01:09:56,400
I'm very, very good about it. Absolutely.

909
01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:00,130
Nick: Maybe that's the thing that you should be using AI for, you see, it's like the gig

910
01:10:00,130 --> 01:10:01,040
that you don't want.

911
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:05,356
Ty: Joking aside, I spoke to another composed friend who turned around and went, you

912
01:10:05,356 --> 01:10:09,673
should have just got AI to do it. That's literally what you do. Get AI to do it.

913
01:10:09,673 --> 01:10:14,097
It's the kind of music that they don't know what they want. It's absolute rubbish.

914
01:10:14,097 --> 01:10:17,280
It's trash. What they're suggesting. I love it really well.

915
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:18,600
They do.

916
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:23,989
Nick: Anything that they tell you they want, you just put that in the prompt. So that's

917
01:10:23,989 --> 01:10:24,920
what you said.

918
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:30,200
Amanda: The thing is, I might, you literally type it in. And so you'll see what you'll get.

919
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:35,878
Ty: The exact words I used were I'm really sorry, but I'm not willing to write the music

920
01:10:35,878 --> 01:10:41,555
of an 18 year old that knows nothing about music written on a laptop in his bedroom.

921
01:10:41,555 --> 01:10:47,165
And, you know, that's exactly why words, which I'm not. I'm not willing to do that.

922
01:10:47,165 --> 01:10:52,707
So I'm good. Believe me, I'm very, very good. And I will enjoy the time. Well, the

923
01:10:52,707 --> 01:10:58,182
time off doesn't exist because the deadline, the dub was tomorrow. So the dead is

924
01:10:58,182 --> 01:10:58,520
gone.

925
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,791
Nick: I've done that. But there's that thing, isn't there? There's that thing that

926
01:11:01,791 --> 01:11:05,063
happens. It happens with us. We got offered back in the day when I was doing

927
01:11:05,063 --> 01:11:07,000
remixes, we got offered a brim full of Asher.

928
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

929
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:13,736
Nick: Wow. And we just couldn't we couldn't see it at all. We're just like, I'm just not

930
01:11:13,736 --> 01:11:19,293
seeing it. And then Fatboy Slim did his thing and it's like, ah, okay. Yeah. Oh,

931
01:11:19,293 --> 01:11:19,640
well.

932
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:26,398
Ty: Can I just can I just one thing which is not to do with anything, because I know we

933
01:11:26,398 --> 01:11:31,675
need to go. But one of the subjects we were going to do was about, you know, the SD

934
01:11:31,675 --> 01:11:36,953
card shortage, and you may well do this week or something. Let me just tell you one

935
01:11:36,953 --> 01:11:42,231
very quick thing about that. So I've been I wanted to buy. So this is like not this

936
01:11:42,231 --> 01:11:47,572
March, the March before so March 2025. There was an eight terabyte SSD internal that

937
01:11:47,572 --> 01:11:52,595
I wanted to buy. At that time, it was 650 pounds. And I didn't buy it because I

938
01:11:52,595 --> 01:11:57,555
thought, Oh, do you know what? No, no, no, I'll wait a bit. I was changing the

939
01:11:57,555 --> 01:12:02,705
system. Skip forward to March this year, the exact same drive was 1300 pounds for

940
01:12:02,705 --> 01:12:07,983
exactly the same drive. forward to today, I went and checked because obviously it's

941
01:12:07,983 --> 01:12:13,070
one of the subjects. Today, it is 2300 and something pounds for exactly the same

942
01:12:13,070 --> 01:12:16,440
drive that last March was, you know, kind of 600 ish.

943
01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:17,280
Nick: Yeah.

944
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:22,637
Well, this was one of going to be one of the topics because this is one of the

945
01:12:22,637 --> 01:12:26,953
things because all the AI data centers are eating all it's not necessarily eating

946
01:12:26,953 --> 01:12:31,429
the SSDs that eating the manufacturing process, absolute capability for making those

947
01:12:31,429 --> 01:12:35,533
wafers, which are the, you know, whatever they're going to be made into. They

948
01:12:35,533 --> 01:12:40,009
probably would be SSDs at that size. This is another thing that we're having to deal

949
01:12:40,009 --> 01:12:44,432
with because in a way, we're being forced to use cloud because that's where they're

950
01:12:44,432 --> 01:12:48,908
the only people who've got any hard drive space. Yeah, we haven't got any because we

951
01:12:48,908 --> 01:12:53,278
can't afford it. I don't know how computer manufacturers are. Do you know if I was

952
01:12:53,278 --> 01:12:57,648
a, if I was a computer shop that sold, you know, hard drives cases, the only thing

953
01:12:57,648 --> 01:13:01,964
they've got in stock, I'm told is cases these days and fans. Yeah. That's kind of

954
01:13:01,964 --> 01:13:06,281
it. Yeah. It's kind of scary, isn't it? Anyway, so I wanted to live on a positive

955
01:13:06,281 --> 01:13:07,240
note, but I can't.

956
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,636
Ty: And I'm really happy in the fact that I haven't had to buy it and I'm really happy

957
01:13:11,636 --> 01:13:12,440
about it. Yeah.

958
01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:16,711
Nick: Eventually you've saved even more money than you would have if you bought it.

959
01:13:16,711 --> 01:13:21,316
Exactly. So that's, that's what I guess that's a positive smiley face. Amanda, it's

960
01:13:21,316 --> 01:13:25,920
been lovely to have you. I guess you're at the beginning of your day over there in,

961
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:32,335
what did I say it was? You said it was, it's not Santa Cruz, California. Santa Cruz,

962
01:13:32,335 --> 01:13:36,619
it is Santa Cruz, California. No doubt. I've got a big productive day ahead of you.

963
01:13:36,619 --> 01:13:40,850
I hope you have a great week. Anything exciting coming up that we should watch out

964
01:13:40,850 --> 01:13:42,760
for from you? Are you doing any gigs?

965
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:47,841
Amanda: Goodness. Yeah. I am playing a show in Santa Cruz on Thursday, June 4th. I'm

966
01:13:47,841 --> 01:13:53,323
actually playing my melodic project, Nicene. So I'm really excited about that. I'm

967
01:13:53,323 --> 01:13:58,873
going to play some original tunes and melodic techno. And yeah. So if you're in the

968
01:13:58,873 --> 01:14:01,480
area, come on down to Cat Alley street.

969
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:07,949
Nick: Excellent. Lovely. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you everybody in

970
01:14:07,949 --> 01:14:12,898
the chat. Thanks for hanging in there in this hot weather, wherever you are. And do

971
01:14:12,898 --> 01:14:17,787
get, if you can get some personal air conditioning or put your feet in a bucket, I

972
01:14:17,787 --> 01:14:22,676
think that can help too. Feet in a bucket. Because then it will drip all over your

973
01:14:22,676 --> 01:14:25,240
technology and you'd be cooling your wrist.

974
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:29,160
Amanda: Thank you. And thank you so much, Nick, for having me. This has been so fun.

975
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:34,400
Nick: You're welcome. Cheers everybody. I will press the button to shift it and that will

976
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:38,440
end the show. See you later, everybody. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye.